| Author |
Topic: Western Swing on reso |
Michael Lester
From:
Illinois, USA
|
Posted 28 Jul 2016 8:01 am |
|
Our band has agreed to do an all acoustic Western Swing gig at an outdoor party...fiddle, guitars, upright bass, snare drum - and steel...
At normal gigs I play C6 ACEGACEG on a Stringmaster 8 -
My reso has always been tuned to G or F...
I need some help coming up with a workable tuning for the reso that won't require I learn all new positions for 40 or so tunes... CEGACE (dropping off the low A and high G) won't work because of the string tension...
Suggestions please?
Michael |
|
|
 |
Todd Clinesmith
From:
Lone Rock Free State Oregon
|
|
|
|
Andy Henriksen
From:
Michigan, USA
|
Posted 28 Jul 2016 8:43 am
|
|
I have a cheap reso that's tuned to CEGACE. Admittedly the tone isn't that great, but it does allow me to play my "electric songs" acoustically without having to think much. I think as long as you choose appropriate string gauges, it would work good enough for you to get by.
For me, relearning 40 songs in a different tuning, even if it's the same relative intervals, would result in me regularly getting lost, starting licks on the wrong fret, etc. I'd personally rather sacrifice a bit of tone for the comfort and familiarity. |
|
|
|
Michael Lester
From:
Illinois, USA
|
Posted 28 Jul 2016 8:46 am
|
|
Hi Todd...I like the idea of the Roland...thanks!
...still love the Koa reso you built for me!
Michael |
|
|
|
Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
|
Posted 28 Jul 2016 8:49 am
|
|
Why not bite the bullet and buy a suitable set of strings and play the tuning you want?
I keep my Dobro tuned to A6 (exactly the sane gauges I'd use for C6 with a high E).
As long as you use a thinner string (maybe a .009 or even an .008 if you're worried), high G wouldn't be a problem either.
If you are playing completely acoustically though, you might struggle to be heard though - it's not a super loud instrument, especially when pointing upwards. |
|
|
|
Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
|
Posted 28 Jul 2016 9:38 am
|
|
If you want to get the 6th sound on a dobro that is normally played in G tuning this is a relatively easy way to go about it, and I'm all about finding the easiest way.
In standard dobro tuning low-to-hi GBDGBD, tune up the 4th string from D to E. Don't just do it now - if you have a regular dobro set on there with a .036w on the 4th, with the tension of the tuning it will likely blow if you try to crank it up a whole step to E. You will need to change out the string to a .034w or maybe even a .032w.
As for the playing part, you have to be aware at all times that the 4th is now an E note. I refer to it as being in the middle of a busy intersection and it can tend to dominate anything you play, giving you the 6th sound even when you don't want it for a particular passage. It's a tuning that Cindy Cashdollar teaches in one of her dobro DVDs.
But the funny thing is, I took a dobro swing class several years ago at the conference Rob Ickes puts on in Nashville called ResoSummit and co-teaching was the late great Mike Auldridge. Mike was playing his 8 string Beard in a 6th tuning, but Cindy was on her 6 string Beard in regular GBDGBD. In other words you don't have to re-tune to a 6th or something else completely, like C6th where a dobro can sound a little wimpy because of the lighter string gauges. But in trading licks, Mike wasn't having to move his bar hand a lot to get what he needed on the 8 string whereas Cindy's bar hand was flying up and down the neck to try to keep up. And keep up she did.
So you can keep your guitar in GBDGBD and you'll do just fine on many swing tunes.
Check out the two videos below. In the first one Jimmy Heffernan is playing Roly Poly in GBDGBD. In the second one Greg Booth is playing Panhandle Rag in GBDGBD. Now Greg is known for dropping his 6th string to E most of the time, but in this instance he didn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeoi0jRZAiw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0lAcSKJjqQ&list=PLD169A3554FDE4A9E
_________________
Mark |
|
|
|
Michael Lester
From:
Illinois, USA
|
Posted 29 Jul 2016 7:20 am
|
|
Thanks Mark... good advice...unfortunately, I don't have the time to refocus all of the tunes we play on a different tuning / different positions...
Todd's advice - battery powered amp - makes good sense to me and it's the kind of thing that I might use for other venues.
Talking to my Guitar Center guy today...
Michael |
|
|
|
Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
|
Posted 29 Jul 2016 8:36 am
|
|
I play a weird D6 tuning... (bottom to top)
1-D
2-A
3-F#
4-D
5-B
6-A
Makes it easy to play melody lines or chords.
This also uses the standard open G string set.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
|
|
|
Steve Green
From:
Gulfport, MS, USA
|
Posted 29 Jul 2016 12:51 pm
|
|
When faced with that same scenario, I tuned my 3 big strings up 1 whole step to A C# E, and my 3 small strings down to F# A C#, giving me an A6th tuning with the same intervals as my 6 string C6th lap steel. This kept enough tension on the cone to produce a good sound.
_________________
Some songs I've written |
|
|
|
Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
|
Posted 29 Jul 2016 1:44 pm
|
|
| Steve Green wrote: |
| When faced with that same scenario, I tuned my 3 big strings up 1 whole step to A C# E, and my 3 small strings down to F# A C#, giving me an A6th tuning with the same intervals as my 6 string C6th lap steel. This kept enough tension on the cone to produce a good sound. |
Do you have a regular dobro set of strings on there, or lighter gauges?
I can't imagine cranking up each of the three low strings a whole step if they are the typical gauges which are typically .036w, .046w, and .056w.
_________________
Mark |
|
|
|
Steve Green
From:
Gulfport, MS, USA
|
Posted 29 Jul 2016 5:47 pm
|
|
| Mark Eaton wrote: |
| Steve Green wrote: |
| When faced with that same scenario, I tuned my 3 big strings up 1 whole step to A C# E, and my 3 small strings down to F# A C#, giving me an A6th tuning with the same intervals as my 6 string C6th lap steel. This kept enough tension on the cone to produce a good sound. |
Do you have a regular dobro set of strings on there, or lighter gauges?
I can't imagine cranking up each of the three low strings a whole step if they are the typical gauges which are typically .036w, .046w, and .056w. |
Yes, sir. Standard dobro gauge strings. I got the idea from Brad Bechtel on this thread from a couple of years ago.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=266813&highlight=tuning
| Brad Bechtel wrote: |
I've had good luck with A6th tuning using standard dobro strings.
1. C# (down a half step from D)
2. A (down a whole step from B)
3. F# (down a half step from G)
4. E (up a whole step from D)
5. C# (up a whole step from B)
6. A (up a whole step from G) |
_________________
Some songs I've written |
|
|
|
Michael Lester
From:
Illinois, USA
|
Posted 30 Jul 2016 1:51 pm
|
|
...I ended up with this...at first, I thought the snicker factor was pretty high when my guy from Guitar Center told me to try it (I took my steel with me to GC)...
It's no Deluxe Reverb - but it is surprisingly good sounding and will work just fine for the acoustic gig we've booked.
6 AA batteries with a reported 12 hours of life...
...not laughing anymore. BTW, I tried several battery powered amps while there - this is the one that stuck with me the best...
(No interest in GC or VOX)
Thanks all for your comments and suggestions!
Michael
 |
|
|
|
Bob Stone
From:
Gainesville, FL, USA
|
Posted 31 Jul 2016 5:38 am
|
|
I have been playing my Dobro in C6 at acoustic jams for a couple of years. The tone is passable, but tone and loudness both suffer with those light strings.
I have considered Bb 6th: Bb-D-F-G-Bb-D, which I could play as-is or capo on the 2nd fret to yield C6th.
Has anyone tried this tuning? The string gauges should give a good strong tone. I'd probably try a standard G tuning string set, except for F string. |
|
|
|
Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
|
Posted 31 Jul 2016 1:12 pm
|
|
I keep all my non-pedal steels in a High G C6, from low to high (G Bb E G A C E G). On the 6 stringers, I leave out the high and low G's. I keep a B11 tuning on one of my 6 string resos and my JB Frypan. I have one Dobro in high bass G tuning (G B D G B D) for bluegrass.
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
|
|
|
Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
|
Posted 31 Jul 2016 6:15 pm
|
|
I tried that Bb6th for a while, Bob, but I was always going to the wrong fret. 'Guess the C6th positions were too ingrained in my aging neural pathways.
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
|
|
|
Guy Cundell
From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
|
|
|
|
Bob Stone
From:
Gainesville, FL, USA
|
Posted 1 Aug 2016 3:51 am
|
|
Hi Andy,
That's why I have hesitated to use Bb 6th. My rusty old brain is imprinted on C6. So I was thinking a capo would help. |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 1 Aug 2016 7:30 am
|
|
The G6 solution sounds very reasonable to me. My only thought is that the pitch of the 5th and 6th together like that is a little on the low side. A6 is better in that regard, but it would require to much re-tooling.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
|
Posted 1 Aug 2016 9:52 am
|
|
| Steve Green wrote: |
| Mark Eaton wrote: |
| Steve Green wrote: |
| When faced with that same scenario, I tuned my 3 big strings up 1 whole step to A C# E, and my 3 small strings down to F# A C#, giving me an A6th tuning with the same intervals as my 6 string C6th lap steel. This kept enough tension on the cone to produce a good sound. |
Do you have a regular dobro set of strings on there, or lighter gauges?
I can't imagine cranking up each of the three low strings a whole step if they are the typical gauges which are typically .036w, .046w, and .056w. |
Yes, sir. Standard dobro gauge strings. I got the idea from Brad Bechtel on this thread from a couple of years ago.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=266813&highlight=tuning
| Brad Bechtel wrote: |
I've had good luck with A6th tuning using standard dobro strings.
1. C# (down a half step from D)
2. A (down a whole step from B)
3. F# (down a half step from G)
4. E (up a whole step from D)
5. C# (up a whole step from B)
6. A (up a whole step from G) |
|
I am amazed. In particular I don't have the guts to tune my low G up to A. I really like the Sperzel locking tuners on my Clinesmith, but I have wondered for several years if these are the cause for the 4th exploding when I have tried to tune it higher. One turn around the post, no extra slack to speak of. After about the third time breaking the 4th string D up to E it sunk in that it can't be done on my guitar with the typical .036w dobro set string so I have never even bothered to make the attempt on the 5th or 6th strings - I'd just be asking for trouble.
I was just jiving around playing along with Guy's rendition of All of Me in my standard GBDGBD tuned Clinesmith. I think I hung in there pretty well because mentally, along with muscle memory, knew where to go to play the song without retuning the guitar to what Guy was using.
Everyone is different, and though I like to change maybe one string in Open G to give me a tuning with a unique flavor now and then, I think because Open G is so ingrained that it is a shorter path to success for me to stick with it rather than try to use a completely different tuning.
I have listened to a lot of jazz-like and swing-like numbers from Jerry Douglas, Rob Ickes, Billy Cardine, JImmy Heffernan and the late Mike Auldridge. Most of it is in GBDGBD or occasionally with one string retuned.
MIke Auldridge, during the making of the Three Bells dobro only album with Jerry and Rob toward the end of his life apparently said at one point that he realized that Rob Ickes actually knew the fretboard of the dobro (G tuning) better than he did.
I have a feeling that if I handed a C#m tuned dobro to Rob and said, "hey man - check this out - you might like it" he might reply, "no thanks - I'll stick with what I know."
_________________
Mark |
|
|
|
Jouni Karvonen
From:
Helsinki, Finland
|
|
|
|
Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
|
Posted 1 Aug 2016 10:39 am
|
|
This is true Jouni, but what Tommy Morrell was doing on that version of Sweet Lorraine was playing pretty much single string lines throughout the entire piece which you could do pretty much in any tuning of your choice once you have it down.
Not a thing wrong with that, it's when a dobro or steel guitar player can do a great job of emulating horn lines, but I believe what people are looking for here is being able to play this stuff in a tuning that gives one chords. You can get some of the full chords that you want in G, and plenty of partials and double stops. Octaves sound great in jazzy/swingy tunes in Open G. And I have no doubt that if Mr. Morrell were still among the living and he took more of a "multi-string" approach to Sweet Lorraine he could play the heck out of it.
I'll tell you what - I had to listen to that last portion or outro a couple times - it was outstanding!
_________________
Mark |
|
|
|
Jouni Karvonen
From:
Helsinki, Finland
|
Posted 1 Aug 2016 11:54 pm
|
|
| @Mark: So true, but worth a try if yo know your "dobro" fretboard well enough. For tangos and WS i retune my reso to A-C-D-F#-B-D, lo to high. |
|
|
|
Greg Maass
From:
Washington, USA
|
Posted 2 Aug 2016 11:48 am Western Swing on Reso
|
|
When I am in that situation, I channel my "Inner Stacy Phillips". There are quite a few 6th and Maj7th 3 note chords that you can get with a slant and a choke on one of the strings. Also some partial chord substitutions with a straight bar. Not the same as having a real western swing tuning at your disposal, but it can give some variety to a standard tuning.
Also I concur with the suggestion to bring a small amp. I have a battery operated Honeytone amp that fits in my case, and I use it all of the time with my lap steel when camping at festivals. Surprisingly good sound and volume. $20, so I even have a spare.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/honeytone-n-10-guitar-mini-amp |
|
|
|
