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Topic: New player - any advice? |
Tom Kaminski
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2016 6:13 am |
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Greetings!
I have been fascinated by steel guitar for many years, and given some recent opportunities and events in my life I think now is the time to jump on in. I am turning 50 years old and have played guitar and keys most of my life so I already have the musical background. With the research I have done over the past couple of months, it looks like a lap steel might be the way to go to get started, as it seems the learning curve and financial investment may not be as much as it is for a pedal steel. Depending on how that goes, a pedal steel could be in my future. BTW, I am looking to play modern country type material.
I don't mind spending a bit of money up front to buy a quality instrument. As a beginner I understand it doesn't make sense to start with top of the line but I do believe that you get what you pay for, and a quality instrument goes a long way towards making the whole experience much more satisfying and enjoyable.
That said ... in my exploration I have come across the Jackson SlideKing lap steel. What really impresses me is that this company is born of Sho-Bud heritage, and I really like the idea of their pro-bender pitch changer to help get that pedal steel sound (that sound is ultimately what I am after here). Does anyone here have any experience to share with this company or these guitars?
As far as tunings ... open E seems pretty common (it's what the SlideKing is tuned to by default) and I see C6 has great versatility on a six string. How do you deal with minor chords when using an open tuning? I'm guessing the open E is used on the Jackson because of the pitch bend (goes to the IV) but what is the real limitation of open tuning?
How do I buy the right finger picks (type and size) to start? I haven't seen much info on that yet. I'm assuming I want my tone bar to be bigger rather than smaller (must fit across all the strings), is the Dunlop Lap Dawg a good choice?
Anything I am missing?
Tom
Central NJ
Last edited by Tom Kaminski on 20 Jul 2016 7:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Frank Agliata
From:
Jersey Shore, USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2016 7:02 am
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Welcome Tom, and good luck on your new adventure into the world of steel. It's very addicting and a little frustrating at times. But well worth it. The Jackson looks pretty cool. I do the same thing with a Gretsch lap steel and a Duesenberg Multibender. It's like a portable E9 with an A/B pedal. No where near as nice as the real thing, but a good start, IMHO. Being a guitar player, the hardest thing to get used to is to resist using a plectrum and learn proper finger picking techniques.
It will take time but is well worth it . . Good luck and greeting from the Jersey Shore . . 
_________________
GFI Expo X1, Melbert 8, Rukavina 6
always learning |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2016 7:35 am
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Hi, Tom, welcome to the slidy world… you can use the search function here to find all kinds of information, and of course a lot of opinions!
In my opinion, you can (eventually) play just about any kind of music on any tuning, however certain types seem better served by certain tunings.
The C6 has accessible sounds for Hawaiian, Western Swing, Jazz, and old school country, but for many beginners it's hard to skip over the 6th (scale tone) note in the tuning and not always sound Hawaiian. There is a LOT of available instructional material for C6.
The E or D tunings with R-5-R-3-5-R bottom to top have an advantage with a "power chord" on the bottom three strings, always either or both major and minor, and a simple triad above that. I find that type tuning very friendly for rock, modern country, Americana, etc. Not quite so much instructional material available, but there is some.
Another option would be open G "Dobro" tuning, works great for country, blues, Americana as well, two redundant triads on top of each other, so everything works the same on both "halves" of the tuning. Tremendous amount of learning material available, although much of it is based on acoustic bluegrass.
The Jackson would be a fine guitar, and you would have a basic pedal sound with a few variations. I might suggest trying some cheaper basic alternatives and experimenting a bit with tunings to see what rocks your boat… used Melobars, Oahus, and Supro-McKinney-Valco type lap steels are around in the $200- 450 range, and a lot of fun.
As for minor chords… the C6 tuning is also simultaneously an Am7 tuning, so you have the "relative" minor and major chords built in. Any major triad based tuning can provide minors by simply flatting the 3rd (interval) by a half step, and the necessary notes also lie in other positions, just takes acclimatization and a bit of bar movement.
Finger/ thumb picks are a kind of personal feel thing, lots of archived threads here, you'll probably want to try several styles to find what fits and feels good.
Most players use either a bullet-nose bar (great for slants and not catching on the strings as you move across the neck) or a grooved Stevens-style (Lap Dawg, etc.) which is arguably better if you want to do a lot of hammer-ons and pull offs, and harder to drop! You can get comfortable with most techniques on any bar, so again, a personal feel thing. For 6 string lap most players are comfy with a 3/4" or so diameter, you don't need the larger pedal steel size in 7/8-1" unless you just really like the feel.
Hope this helps!
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 20 Jul 2016 7:54 am
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| Mark van Allen wrote: |
The C6 has accessible sounds for Hawaiian, Western Swing, Jazz, and old school country, but for many beginners it's hard to skip over the 6th (scale tone) note in the tuning and not always sound Hawaiian. There is a LOT of available instructional material for C6.
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Mark, not meaning to be combative, but why do you suppose that everyone considers 6th bombs to sound Hawaiian? I've read that once before, but the only time I ever hear the 6ths in Hawaiian like that is on the I chord. Usually to me it just sounds like inexperience or lack of right hand chops, whether Hawaiian, western swing or whatever.
I find C6 to be the most versatile tuning, even for Rock, but my playing is informed by many years of guitar playing. The intervallic construction allows one to really get into playing single note improvisation in any key; however, it is a little more difficult to pull off the more cliche slide licks, but they are doable.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Tom Kaminski
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2016 12:02 pm
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Guys thanks for all the good info.
| Mark van Allen wrote: |
| The E or D tunings with R-5-R-3-5-R bottom to top have an advantage with a "power chord" on the bottom three strings, always either or both major and minor, and a simple triad above that. I find that type tuning very friendly for rock, modern country, Americana, etc. |
Makes sense, avoid the 3rd and play a I/V power chord on minors ... and that's exactly the type of music I am looking to play. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 20 Jul 2016 12:37 pm Tunings, tunings..................
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Most of the old time players, one's that have had and enjoyed their time on stage and in the limelight in the world of matching/coordinated uniforms, BIG BUCKS and great personal fame, visa radio and TV, most always got their foundation for playing in the E7th, A6th and C#min. That was back when the only music being published and available was written out in those limited tunings.
This was before folks started analyzing things to death instead of getting down to trying to play the darn thing thro' years of practicing and listening to the various players of the day. Back when one was satisfied to learn to play competently in one tuning before even thinking about changing to another.
Yes, today is different. More authoritative individuals to inquire of about the varied aspects of learning to play the steel guitar.
I do believe if more newcomers would enter this arena with a mind set to learn to play the darn thing and then figure how they might improve on what they have thus far learned, what a better world this would be.
Bar sizes, type of pick varieties and neck lengths are things that can come about when the time is right.
Don't let your mind get ahead of where you're actually at. Practice, practice.
Once you have determined what short comings your guitar, strings, picks and bar variables might present, with a little acquired knowledge your decision will be far better than rushing around in the dark. |
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Tom Kaminski
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2016 12:56 pm Re: Tunings, tunings..................
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| Ray Montee wrote: |
I do believe if more newcomers would enter this arena with a mind set to learn to play the darn thing and then figure how they might improve on what they have thus far learned, what a better world this would be.
Bar sizes, type of pick varieties and neck lengths are things that can come about when the time is right.
Don't let your mind get ahead of where you're actually at. Practice, practice.
Once you have determined what short comings your guitar, strings, picks and bar variables might present, with a little acquired knowledge your decision will be far better than rushing around in the dark. |
Thanks Ray. I am just looking to make an intelligent and informed decision to get started and not just rush into it blindly, when a little research could set me on the right path. I assume and expect my preferences and needs will evolve, but you got to start somewhere! Hopefully I can minimize any waste in some obvious (to those with experience) spots. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 21 Jul 2016 6:54 am
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Tom, my opinion is to listen to as much of the classic recordings of the great steel players as you can get your hands on. YouTube is loaded with recordings of Sol Hoopii, Dick McIntire, Joaquin Murphey, Vance terry, Speedy West, Jerry Byrd, Leon McAuliffe, Don Helms, Little Roy Higgins and many, many others. Absorb the playing styles and sound and determine which path you'd like to pursue.
Personally, I think 1930s and 40s Hawaiian and western Swing are the perfect place to start building your technique and preparing you for modern advances.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2016 2:55 pm
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Read "Song of the Siren" first.
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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Tom Keller
From:
Greeneville, TN, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2016 8:11 pm
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Without starting a fight I find myself agreeing with Mark Van Allen. I remember in my youth trying to play bluegrass dobro with a 6th variant. It simply couldn't be done. Even with proper right hand technique the 6th would still come through like sitar sympathetic strings. I finally gave up the idea and saved the 6th tuning for lap steel and music that was more accepting of the 6th over ring.
Tom Keller |
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