| Author |
Topic: Filing pole pieces on Rick frypan horseshoe? |
Emmett Mahoney
From:
Hawaii, USA
|
Posted 3 Jul 2016 1:24 pm |
|
Aloha!
I have a '34 Rickenbacher A22 7string with wildly uneven poles that bottom out. I have the tiniest string clearance to play with, I've been playing this one almost a year and its still driving me crazy. The output is very strong and even across the strings but the tone is very hot and trebley, I have to turn the amp treble knob down completely and back off the guitar volume knob 1/4 just to get a warm tone.
I'm considering filing the pole pieces down but don't want to F-up this all original gem of a guitar... Can anyone give some advice on this? Mahalo! |
|
|
 |
Loren Tilley
From:
Maui, Hawaii
|
Posted 3 Jul 2016 6:20 pm
|
|
| I have the exact same problem (also 7 string frypan). The clearance is super tiny and it is very easy to press a string into the pole piece which is not good. Also, Emmett, are you the gypsy guitar player?? If so, Kilin Reece has spoken kind words about you--we gotta jam when you get to Maui! |
|
|
|
Emmett Mahoney
From:
Hawaii, USA
|
Posted 3 Jul 2016 7:44 pm
|
|
Hey Loren, yup I'm Kilin's friend! I don't get to Maui too often but if you're ever in Honolulu on a Thurs night I have a weekly gypsy jazz gig, come join us! I also bring a steel guitar and play a few Django tunes on it. It's really all I practice lately
The info I've found online so far regarding filing the poles seems inconclusive... I just know if I can get this guitar set up right she'll sing like an angel. Thinking of changing the nut and saddle as well. |
|
|
|
Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
|
Posted 4 Jul 2016 3:07 am
|
|
File away ... I do it all the time when I rewind them ...
Some are crazy high under the top strings ...
I have the bobbin out of course ... And use a little drum sander on a Dremel tool ...
Just be careful not to apply too much pressure ... On those old frypans and Bakelites ... The start of the magnet wire is soldered to an exposed pole (they filed off the bakelite around pole(s) 1 and/or 6 ) ... This grounds the coil to the pole ... Then to the mounting plate ... Then to the body of the frypan (in Bakelites, a ground is run off the mounting plate) ...
If you are too aggressive ... You might tear away the magnet wire from the exposed pole ...
You can bring them all down flush ... But usually I just "manscape" them down to a manageable height .... Leaving a smooth stagger ...
 |
|
|
|
Loren Tilley
From:
Maui, Hawaii
|
Posted 4 Jul 2016 2:17 pm
|
|
Rick, thanks for the info. Sounds doable but, but I am not a DIY person. Sure wish you were in Hawaii. I may let Emmett go first and report back.
Emmett, I'll have to find an excuse to visit Oahu. Funny, my frypan could also use a new nut & saddle. Wish I knew where I could get one. Any leads on that? Sounds like we have virtually the same guitar. Right now I have little shims made of folded aluminum foil to make everything line up in a somewhat workable way. Far from ideal.
Maybe I'll have Kilin mess with the frypan, he's pretty much the handiest guy I know. He built me an awesome mandolin and we are planning a 16" L-5 style guitar now. |
|
|
|
Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
|
Posted 5 Jul 2016 2:22 am
|
|
Hi Emmett, great to see you here on the forum, it's full of great info and great people! Good luck with your frypan ! Aloha-sebastian-
_________________
https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com |
|
|
|
Emmett Mahoney
From:
Hawaii, USA
|
Posted 5 Jul 2016 7:53 am
|
|
Thanks Rick! I trust your expert opinion. You've given me the courage to go ahead and try it.
Loren, I saw Kilin yesterday and showed him my guitar. He recommended I remove and take apart the pickup to file it. I'm not sure I need to take it all apart though. I'll let you know how it goes, I'm a pretty handy airline mechanic so should be easy.
Hi Seb! After lurking for a while I've finally become a member. When are you coming back to HI? |
|
|
|
Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
|
Posted 7 Jul 2016 1:24 am
|
|
| Emmett Mahoney wrote: |
Hi Seb! After lurking for a while I've finally become a member. When are you coming back to HI? |
I hope next year, we have to organize the budget for the trip, this year it will only be Spain : )
_________________
https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com |
|
|
|
Emmett Mahoney
From:
Hawaii, USA
|
Posted 7 Jul 2016 12:42 pm
|
|
So I took my fry pan to my buddy Mark Iseman's shop yesterday. The high 2nd, or C string doesn't seem to ring out properly when played open so we made a new nut out of bone. It didn't seem to help, the string seems dampened, but only when played thru an amp. I think it's something to do with the pole piece?
To file the poles down I removed and detached the pick up from the baseplate and horseshoes via 2 screws which also serve as poles for strings 2 and 6. The pole heights for those two strings can be adjusted by adding or removing washers. I filed the rest of the poles down with a hand file to get more string clearance. Worked out pretty good, no real difference in sound, but then I didn't file them down too drastically. |
|
|
|
Scott Thomas
|
Posted 7 Jul 2016 1:25 pm Re: Filing pole pieces on Rick frypan horseshoe?
|
|
| Emmett Mahoney wrote: |
Aloha!
The output is very strong and even across the strings but the tone is very hot and trebley, I have to turn the amp treble knob down completely and back off the guitar volume knob 1/4 just to get a warm tone. |
I'm assuming your guitar has a single volume knob, and no tone control. I also have an early Rick (bakelite) and have found out (thanks to Rick Aiello) that the volume pot on these (again, assuming yours is original) works like a rheostat--that is, after about the half way mark, the tone gets harsh and trebley. It was designed this way as a sort of vol/tone in one.
I too have to keep the volume knob below the half way mark to get a warm tone. One fraction of a bump above that part and it goes full treble. There is no subtle sweep.
I'm just throwing this out there in case this is what is going on with your guitar and you weren't aware of this feature. |
|
|
|
John Limbach
From:
Billings, Montana, USA
|
Posted 7 Jul 2016 2:24 pm Re: Filing pole pieces on Rick frypan horseshoe?
|
|
[/quote]I too have to keep the volume knob below the half way mark to get a warm tone. One fraction of a bump above that part and it goes full treble. There is no subtle sweep.
[/quote]
Scott is right on the money. My 1934 single knob Frypan acts just like yours and his Bakelite. From fully CCW you only have about 15 degrees of rotation before it starts to sound like fingernails on a chalkboard.
My 1951 two knob BD6 also wants the tone knob rolled back a lot for maximum warmth but it's effect as you turn it more clockwise is a lot more subtle than the single knob. |
|
|
|
Emmett Mahoney
From:
Hawaii, USA
|
Posted 7 Jul 2016 3:31 pm
|
|
Thanks Scott and John, that clears up a big question I had about the tone of this guitar (I wasn't sure if that was normal, the only other fry pan I played was Greg Sardinha's later model from the 40s or 50s and that sounded way more warmer)I just assumed it was because the pole pieces were super close to the strings.
The original knob is still super tight to turn, I was hoping it would free up over time and I could use it for volume swells like Jeff Auhoy but it prob wouldn't sound right anyway, I think he has a dual knob. |
|
|
|
Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
|
Posted 8 Jul 2016 2:59 pm
|
|
Volume only frypans and bakelites had two "hots" & two "grounds" ... One pair ran to the potentiometer (only utilized one input and the wiper ... aka: a Rheostat) ... And one pair to the jack ...
This sets up a " Variable Load" on the coil ... Basically, changing the load the coil " see's " ... Shifting the resonant frequency of the coil ...
It's a "one trick pony" ... But a hell of a trick
If you try and use the one potentiometer ... As a voltage divider (multiplier) ... Like in any modern wiring harness ... Your frypan and/or Bakelite will peel the paint off your walls ...
That's why so many prewar frypans have "after market" tone circuits added ...
It's just physics ... So if you want to keep the unit "all original" ... You have to change your "mindset" ... It's not a volume nor tone ... It's a variable load ... Therefore any preconceived notions of a " volume control" and its usual "use" ... Goes down the drain  |
|
|
|
Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
|
Posted 8 Jul 2016 3:16 pm
|
|
| PS: That is why a 100k log potentiometer is the best choice for this scenario ... A higher resistance pot would make the "sweet spot" much harder to dial in ... |
|
|
|
Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
|
|
|
|
