6th string mystery

Steve Benzian · From: Burlingame, CA USA

This question concerns the E9 tuning. Let's take an example. String 8 is tuned 442.5 open and string 6 is tuned 439 open...(Newman) When played together open they sound fine and produce a nice harmony. But if the bar is moved to fret 8 or 10 there is disharmony because the 6th string is very flat ( around 435 or 436 )compared to the 8th string which is still at 442.
The bar is on and parallel to the fret marker. If the 5th string and 8th string are used this does not happen. The harmony is good both open and at the 8th or 10th fret and the pitch relationship is the same ( 442.5 on string 8 and 442 on string 5 ). I'm using a wound 6th string.

To play harmonies in tune at the higher frets it becomes necessary to slant the bar to bring the 6th string up to the correct pitch. This oocurs without pedals but has the same effect when using the A & B pedals together. The 6th string will be flat by the same amount requiring a bar slant.

I was hoping one of you would have encountered this and have an explanation.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Dan Galysh · From: Hendersonville, Tennessee, USA

Yes, I've encountered something akin to this on strings 8 and 10 where they would go flat in the pedals down position at the 10th fret and above. After putting a new batch of strings on, the problem seemed to go away. This leads me to believe maybe string quality comes into question?

-Dan

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

Check the intonation by touching the string with your finger on the 12th fret to hit a harmonic with the string open. Then hold the bar on the 12th fret. You should get the same note.
If it is different, try a new string. You may have to go to an unwound 6th string to make it note right.........JD

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I know some players that go through piles of wound 6th strings before they find one that is even sounding.

A new string might help some but there will always be a problem with the 6th string. You can switch to a plain string but that will only make it so you will need to slant the bar slightly in the other direction to play in tune. This is a normal problem that every steel has that I have ever played. The weird part to me is that nobody seems to notice this problem in Forumland.(It is NOT cabinet drop) When a player starts to be able to hear the basic problem of the 6th string as they go up the neck it means they might stand a chance of playing in tune some day. Without some sort of very basic change in the bridge or changer the 6th string will always be a weird one.

------------------

Bob
intonation help

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

My take on these little anomalies, totally unscientific and not just applicable to s.6, is that adjusting to individual guitars by altering your bar position slightly to achieve good relative intonation is part of "learning to play the instrument." I think violinists do it frequently.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I've got a Bruce Bouton tape and he talks about tuning and along with tuning open, he advises to check the tuning at some upper fret position (I think he mentioned the 8th fret) as it may need to be retuned to have it in tune there.

Or as with everything else on a Pedal Steel "compromise".

One other thought, if it is in tune open and it goes "out of tune" when "fretted", check your bar positioning to make sure you are exactly straight.

David Doggett · Posted 23 Dec 2004 9:31 am

After I tune my Es to a meter, I prefer to tune the rest of my strings by ear with the bar at the C fret (9th). Bar pressure can affect different gauges of string in different ways. Also, maybe my customary bar position is not perfectly straight to the fret. For whatever reason, I just get better intonation by tuning this way. The C fret is toward the middle of the usual playing range, but any fret up toward the middle of the neck should work as well.

Tuning with the bar also allows another trick. Sometimes in tuning at the nut, I can hear that a string is off, but I'm not sure by how much and in which direction. Tuning with the bar up the neck allows you to slant the bar in either direction until the two strings being matched sound the best. It's good to do this with your eyes closed. Then open them and look at the bar. That will tell you both the direction and amount of tuning you need to do with the key or pedal stop. When it sounds good with the bar straight, you're done.

Matching the harmonic at the 12th fret with the fretted note at that fret is the way to adjust the bridge distance to match the string height action on a regular guitar. On a steel guitar the bridge is not adjustable. It is also difficult to be sure the bar is exactly over the painted fret. But if there seems to be a real difference in the harmonic and the fret position, it could mean your fretboard is not positioned correctly.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 23 December 2004 at 09:35 AM.]

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

Here is a simple test i used back in the days of tuning forks ect when you had to tune mostly by ear.Tune your steel open.Then place the bar at the 14 to 15th fret. Don't step on any pedal.If any string notes flat up there you have a bad string and believe me,you can get bad strings in a new set.Hope this is some help.

Steve Benzian · From: Burlingame, CA USA

Thanks for the good info....I can't figure out the physics of why one string should get flat as you move the bar up the neck but not the one right next to it. If the fretboard was misplaced it would affect all the strings I would think.

I will switch out the 6th string and recheck. I wanted to try a wound string since it's supposed to tune easier and I'm not lowering the 6th on this guitar.

johnnyb · From: Wendell, NC, USA

.

[This message was edited by johnnyb on 04 June 2005 at 06:59 AM.]

Steve Benzian · From: Burlingame, CA USA

I switched to a 20g plain and the problem went away. I guess that ends my experiment with the wound 6th string.

Thanks for the help.

jerry harkins · From: kingsland tx

Steve,
I had this problem once and when I changed strings it went away. Also when tuning by ear I tune with my bar on the 5th fret, that makes it easy to here the beats.I was tought that by Mr Tom Brumley.
Good luck,
Jerry.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: