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Topic: The "Stairway" Plagiarism Lawsuit |
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2016 7:29 am |
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| A walkdown is copyright infringement? Of all the tunes and licks Zep probably ripped off, I doubt that this is one. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 16 Jun 2016 7:47 am
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Who did Spirit rip off then?
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 16 Jun 2016 12:51 pm
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You can't copyright a chord progression. To my ear, Spirit's version isn't a melody, it's an arpeggiated chord progression with a descending lowest line. There's a lot of music that Zeppelin (and all musicians, really) appropriated but I wouldn't say this one deserves a lawsuit.
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Last edited by Andy Volk on 16 Jun 2016 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 16 Jun 2016 1:15 pm
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Yes, that arpeggiated minor chord/w descending bass line has been featured in other songs, like Johnny River's "Summer Rain".
This reminds me of the lawsuit story that was going around the internet years ago. Supposedly, Metallica was suing a Canadian band for stealing "their interval"... the tri-tone, E5 to Bb5 power chord, called the Devil's Interval. Metallica claimed it was their signature sound. The whole thing was bogus, of course.
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Last edited by Doug Beaumier on 16 Jun 2016 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeff Garden
From:
Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2016 1:22 pm
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| Eric Clapton's "Let It Grow" is kind of similar as well. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 17 Jun 2016 6:47 am
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I've heard 'Stairway' played just like the Grantata sonata. Maybe Spirit should pay him.
Any argument presented here would get the case thrown out, unless the jury agree with Zappa: 'We're Only In It For The Money.' |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 17 Jun 2016 7:42 am
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| Quote: |
| He says he never heard the song until recently |
I don't believe this. British rock bands at that time were always looking up to American acts. Love, Spirit, Byrds, Beach Boys. I think that the idea for the intro to "Pinball Wizzard" came from Love's "Alone Again Or"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNcXFy8QTC4
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 17 Jun 2016 7:55 am
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I'm thinking the whole thing's a publicity stunt. They've certainly got us talking about them...  |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Barry Blackwood
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Joel Meginsky
From:
Springfield,MA,USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2016 8:47 am Zep suit
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| Blue Skies- Irving Berlin |
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Jeff Garden
From:
Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2016 8:52 am
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| Just out of curiosity, does someone like Weird Al Yankovic who makes a living out of writing parody songs have to pay royalties until the end of time to the original composer? |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2016 8:56 am
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| Jeff Garden wrote: |
| Just out of curiosity, does someone like Weird Al Yankovic who makes a living out of writing parody songs have to pay royalties until the end of time to the original composer? |
I would hope so. |
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Joel Meginsky
From:
Springfield,MA,USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2016 9:08 am Zep soot
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Ellington- In a Sentimental Mood.
As was mentioned, you can't copyright a chord progression, or descending bass line. Appropriation of harmonic movement is as old as the hills. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 17 Jun 2016 10:26 am
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I don't think the plaintiffs stand a chance, but you never know. If there is a one in a thousand chance at millions, people will take it.
I'm aware of a similar situation of Hotel California supposedly borrowing the chord progression of a Jethro Tull song. Ian Anderson just says if they did, he's flattered by the tribute, but believes that there are only so many progressions and it's bound to happen sometimes. |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 17 Jun 2016 10:51 am
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Oh is this the Led Zeppelin fan club, defending their well earned millionaires?
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Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 17 Jun 2016 11:38 am
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| That would be bigger than the Spirit fan club, but it's hard to root for the guy who's just wrong. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2016 12:51 pm
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| . It seems that the jury can only compare the sheet music for each song, not the recordings, which seems a little odd. |
Not odd, because the plaintiff is the songwriter (songwriter's estate actually), not the record company. The songwriter owns the copyright to the compostion, not to the sound recording. The sound recording is owned by the record company that signed Spirit, or possibly to someone else who has bought the rights to that sound recording sometime since 1968. So the Spirit sound recording is irrelevant. However, the Zep recording would be relevant if it contains copyrighted material.
Apparently the defense in the Blurred Lines case did not make this clear to the jury, which may explain the egregious verdict. Or maybe the jury was just just stupid, or had other motives. |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2016 11:43 pm
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| Jeff Garden wrote: |
| Just out of curiosity, does someone like Weird Al Yankovic who makes a living out of writing parody songs have to pay royalties until the end of time to the original composer? |
Al gets permission from the original artist, and writers, of the songs he does and list the original writers on all credits so they do get royalties from his versions of the songs. He does this even after the Supreme Court ruled that a parody does not have to have permission or pay royalties to the original under some "fair use" rule.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/92-1292.ZO.html
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 17 Jun 2016 11:45 pm
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Doesn't this sound similar? Jimmy Page on "Dazed And Confused":
MUSICIAN: I understand “Dazed and Confused†was originally a song by Jake Holmes. Is that true?
PAGE: [Sourly] I don’t know. I don’t know. [Inhaling] I don’t know about all that.
MUSICIAN: Do you remember the process of writing that song?
PAGE: Well, I did that with the Yardbirds originally…. The Yardbirds were such a good band for a guitarist to play in that I came up with a lot of riffs and ideas out of that, and I employed quite a lot of those in the early Zeppelin stuff.
MUSICIAN: But Jake Holmes, a successful jingle writer in New York, claims on his 1967 record that he wrote the original song.
PAGE: Hmm. Well, I don’t know. I don’t know about that. I’d rather not get into it because I don’t know all the circumstances. What’s he got, The riff or whatever? Because Robert wrote some of the lyrics for that on the album. But he was only listening to…we extended it from the one that we were playing with the Yardbirds.
MUSICIAN: Did you bring it into the Yardbirds?
PAGE: No, I think we played it ’round a sort of melody line or something that Keith [Relf] had. So I don’t know. I haven’t heard Jake Holmes so I don’t know what it’s all about anyway. Usually my riffs are pretty damn original [laughs] What can I say?
Jake Holmes played as their support, as one can read here:
http://turnmeondeadman.com/dazed-and-confused-by-jake-holmes/
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