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Topic: Cleaning the changer >>> too much oil |
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 2 Jun 2016 8:00 am |
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My position has always been don't keep adding oil to the changer, primarily because unless you know what oil was used previously the new oil may very well just sit on top of the old oil creating a gooey black mess.
This is an Emmons Legrande II changer, I knew when I purchased the Steel it would need to come apart for full cleaning as the top of the changer was releasing black goo and it was a mess.
So, it's time, here are a few photos of what too much oil will do. This is the E9th changer, the C6th will follow when the E9th is completed.
NOTE: If you take an Emmons changer apart or any other that have aluminum spacers,be extremely careful not to damage the spacers especially if they are stuck from too much gunk. Work them off slowly, if you have to tap, be sure not to damage the spacer or the axle. Cussing is permitted.
The axle was cleaned and put on the wire brush wheel then the scotch pad .
The parts were cleaned with paint thinner using a toothbrush then put on the scotch bright pad (wheel). Some very minor filing ( high edges) may be required and the use of a gun barrel cleaning brush goes a long way.
I used light 3 N 1 oil, mostly wiped off at the final lube, just enough to keep the finger and the bridge to move freely.
Although this changer worked ok before cleaning, it is now better than ok, no restrictions whatsoever whereas before the disassembly a few of the fingers as well as a few spacers were STUCK in place on the axle.
this is about a 3 hr ordeal, from removal to complete cleaning and reassembly. You just repeat the first cleaning process 9 more times !
here ya go...
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2016 3:01 pm
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GOOD Going Tony; you did an awesome job.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 2 Jun 2016 3:51 pm
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Great job Tony! I admire your tenacity rehabbing a changer. I don't use oil in the changer on any of my steel guitars. I use silicone spray lubricant once a year in the changer while the guitar is on the bench and let it dry over night then use a pin oiler on all other moving parts and never had a problem.
Edited for clarification. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 4 Jun 2016 10:39 am
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TTT for my Pedal Steel friends who are thinking they need to lube the changer...again...
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2016 2:46 pm
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Tony, that wasn't that bad!
The first job I did at Performance Guitars for my Friend Jerry Brightman (RIP my dear friend!) was to fix a guitar that didn't work. It was pretty much locked up. The previous owner believed in lots of oil, then converted to powdered graphite! That changer didn't work! That job convinced me that lubricants that stay wet are not the right answer. Maybe if you only play at home,,,, But if you play dusty Honkey Tonks, that wet oil grabs and holds dust and whatever else is floating around.
The excessive oil had also soaked into the wood around the changer, and made it "punky." That's something seldom talked about, but a potentially very serious problem. Anyway, Jerry and I used some brand of dry Teflon lube. I don't remember the brand. Maybe Jerry Fessendon does?
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 4 Jun 2016 3:19 pm
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I know I mention lube now and then, but only when a raise scissor starts following the lower scissor when it didn't do so before. And then it gets lubed sparingly.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 4 Jun 2016 5:11 pm
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| John Billings wrote: |
Tony, that wasn't that bad!
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Perhaps, but when the top of the changer has black goo coming out while playing and it gets all over your right hand, it's time for an operation ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2016 5:22 pm
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Fur Shure!
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Harry Dove
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2016 6:04 pm
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| Has anyone tried break free? It's supposed to be the latest and greatest on gun parts. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2016 6:07 pm
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My experience with Break Free is that it's a good cleaner, but not a lubricant.
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Harry Dove
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2016 6:16 pm
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| Some of the best gunsmiths in the country recommend cleaning your gun parts with a good cleaner and then just a coat of Break Free. I have been doing that for a few years now. It seems to lubricate well without residue. |
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Tim Russell
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2016 6:34 pm
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| Quote: |
| My position has always been don't keep adding oil to the changer... |
If it's not dripping on the volume pedal, you didn't oil it enough.
_________________
Sierra Crown D-10 |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Billy Knowles
From:
Kenansville, N. C. 28349 usa
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Posted 4 Jun 2016 7:44 pm Tony
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Tony, great job!!!!!!!!
_________________
Billy Knowles
STEEL GUITAR EAST
Emmons authorized dealer and approved service technician
my web site: http://www.steelguitareast.com |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 2:46 am
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Thx guys !
I think it's not so much about what oil or lube we use but rather how much and how often !
Adding a great recommended oil on top of yuk still yields the same result, more yuk !
We keep searching for the latest and the greatest when it may have been right in front of us for the last 50 years.
I had two small cans of 3 N 1 oil, the Red and the Blue, I have been carrying them around for good god I don't know how many years or even decades. They are finally empty. I just bought a new small can. I guess I'll pass it on to my daughter in a few decades.
Oh yeah, I'm keeping the empty cans, I'm gonna sell them to Mike and Frank when they come to my house.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 8:50 am
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Nice work, Tony.
Looks like the toothbrush and tray I use.
And it's a real bust when the black goo gets all over your favorite dress shirt!
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 9:38 am
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Very nice work. I learned allot Tony.
_________________
RETIRED
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2016 9:50 am
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yet some very good steel guitarists and builders have used motor oil, or ATF to lube them for decades.. I have doused every pedal steel I have owned for 40 years with oil, and never had a single issue.. When the changer gets dirty after several years, run some brake cleaner or lighter fluid through it and oil it again.. What did the great steel players , builders, and mechanics do throughout the 60's 70's and 80's do???.. They used a lot of oil on their pedal steel guitars. We didn't have all the graphite, teflon, and other high tech stuff.. We had oil of one kind or another. Its all we needed. bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 6 Jun 2016 12:35 am
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Bob , while that is true with regard to running solvent or brake fluid down the changer, no argument, it's still a big mess and makes a big mess !
40 years ago maybe nobody wanted or needed to take a changer apart because they were all basically still relatively new. By todays standards though , a 40 year old changer is pretty old ! Today should we acquire a Steel that is 30/40 +/- years old and really grungy underneath, rods, cross shafts etc, we really have no clue what oil or lube was used .
I certainly do not recommend that everyone just take their Steels apart and clean each part but I have no doubt that some of us are indeed playing Instruments where it should be done.
Me personally, I would rather take the whole thing apart and inspect each component during the process. Running solvent or brake fluid down the axle or changer doesn't remove the burrs or scars off the axle or loosen spacers so they can move freely if they are indeed "stuck" in place. I don't say "don't do that" I'm just saying it's not for me. The axle in the photo above had burrs and scars from over 30 years of use, the spacers would not float freely . It's smooth as a babys bottom now.
I don't know what the great builders did in the 60's, 70's and 80's but I know what the great Steel Guitar mechanics are doing today with instruments from the 60's, 70's and 80's ! Even the 90's !
Being of chemistry mind for the last 30 + years, I have never moved to the new improved oil/lube products with additives, I still use only old school oils from yesteryear , sparingly.
It's kinda Seinfeld'ish to me, adding a lube additive to oil to improve the oil !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Ned McIntosh
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 6 Jun 2016 1:59 am
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An ultrasonic cleaning-bath would be a great way to clean the most stubborn parts. Disassemble, de-grease, manually clean with rifle-brushes etc, then ultrasonic clean. Finish with polishing, de-burring as required.
_________________
The steel guitar is a hard mistress. She will obsess you, bemuse and bewitch you. She will dash your hopes on what seems to be whim, only to tease you into renewing the relationship once more so she can do it to you all over again...and yet, if you somehow manage to touch her in that certain magic way, she will yield up a sound which has so much soul, raw emotion and heartfelt depth to it that she will pierce you to the very core of your being. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 6 Jun 2016 2:17 am
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"I still use only old school oils from yesteryear ,"
Tony, often new stuff is better. Playing 6 nights a week in a dusty, dirty club, lubes that stay wet grab onto filthy stuff that can effect playability and wear. The new dry lubes don't do that. I worked at Performance Steel Guitars, and we never used any sort of oil. Only dry Teflon lube,
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 6 Jun 2016 2:37 am
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| John Billings wrote: |
"I still use only old school oils from yesteryear ,"
Tony, often new stuff is better. Playing 6 nights a week in a dusty, dirty club, lubes that stay wet grab onto filthy stuff that can effect playability and wear. The new dry lubes don't do that. I worked at Performance Steel Guitars, and we never used any sort of oil. Only dry Teflon lube, |
ok, no argument. I don't play 6 nights a week in dusty dirty clubs either.
IF you have used dry lube from the get go, fine, but how many people actually know what lube is in their changers ?
thats what I am talking about. Above photo's are a 32 year old changer which was never cleaned,, adding dry lube on top of that gook would have done nuttin'...
Using a thin film of Hoppes or 3 N 1 after full cleaning will get that changer down the road for another 15 years or more. Probably more...
It's all good, folks can decide whats best for each of them.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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