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Topic: What Do You Tell The Guitar Player? |
Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 23 Dec 2015 6:19 am |
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When I am in the same situation as Henry ( which is very very often) first I give up all hope, accept despair and then try to have fun anyway. Then I make a calculation.
Money , fun , musical frustration and whatever trouble I need to go through to make the gig.
There is usually one guy in the band I need to block out in order to play. Drummer with no time, wandering bass players, any harmonica player and the almost always overplaying too loud guitar player.
I am able to ignore one crappy musician but after that it can be a long night.
For bands that I play with on a regular basis I have had some success by bringing in a pro level sub for the crappy drummer or whatever. If there is any hope the singer notices how much more easy, relaxed , fun and musical the gig went. Then I tell him how easy it is to get competent players if he wants. You need to have a handful of great sideman subs to pull that off though.
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Bob |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2015 7:18 am
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If there is a harmonica player in the band, I'm outta there. I love harmonica solos and specific songs done on a harmonica but they have no place in a band that plays real country music.
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Jess Tolbirt
From:
White Bluff, Tn.
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Posted 23 Dec 2015 8:59 am
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| i did not read every reply, but Seymour told me once that he said to another lead player, " I can get a hell of a lot louder than you can, so try and keep on playing over me" and another thing that irritated him was when it was his time to shine some of the singers would say lets hear it for Bobbie Seymour on the steel guitar,,then Bobbie would quit playing and cross his arms and just look at the singer..i miss all the old stories he used to tell me... |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 23 Dec 2015 9:46 am
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I would be willing to bet that there are probably a few steel players here who could stand to learn the same lesson. It really has nothing to do with the instrument one plays, but a person's musicality and professionalism is what is in need of being developed. Being a great musician isn't possible without a being a great listener.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Bob Watson
From:
Champaign, Illinois, U.S.
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 2:21 am
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| Henry, it sounds to me like you know this guy well enough to tell him his barn door is open if his zipper is down, so I'd just go for it and be honest with him. As long as you explain it well and have examples I doubt it will effect your friendship. I've had people thank me for giving them honest constructive criticism. Good luck with however you end up resolving this issue. |
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Tommy Auldridge
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 10:50 am Best remedy
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| Henry: Just play one fret sharp and slightly slant the bar. Always play twice as loud as him. After a few songs like that, he'll know somethings wrong. It works every time. You're welcome. Tommy...... |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 2:22 am Motown lesson
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Give him a collection of some fantastic Motown music and ask him to listen to the three guitar players on many of the cuts...... in addition to piano, horns, bass, drums, etc. Ask him what is noticeable about all of this music?
Another thing you could do is have someone record six of your band's tunes three of which have the usual overplaying. Then, on the latter three, tell the guitar player to lay out for several tunes.
Finally, during practice, have the band listen to those sic recorded songs and have the members make comments on which sound better and why. steve t
Last edited by steve takacs on 11 Jun 2016 10:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 6:30 am
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| A guitar player in the band commented to me on one occasion, "Everytime I look over at you, you are not playing". My reply, "Because everytime I look at you, you are!" |
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Paul Wade
From:
mundelein,ill
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 7:13 am guitar players
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| David Nugent wrote: |
| A guitar player in the band commented to me on one occasion, "Everytime I look over at you, you are not playing". My reply, "Because everytime I look at you, you are!" |
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J R Rose
From:
Keota, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 3:59 pm
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Henry, My guess is the guitar picker would not like you saying anything. No matter how tactful you say it.
There are those friends that just want to do it all. I don't think they even know that they are hogging it all. On the other hand he may be doing it on purpose to steal some of your glory. ( Jealous) If you want to keep him as a friend ask someone else to make a comment to him about his overplaying keeping you out of it. Some people wear their feelings on their shirt sleeve and get offended very easy. Other wise my advice would be to just start playing very softly and when he looks at you and says something why are you not playing you can then say very softly because you are doing it all. It is a very touchy thing and their is no good answer. Either they are Band Wise are they are Not. Just my 2 cents, J.R. Rose
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NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2015 12:07 pm
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| Pete Burak wrote: |
| "If your ears were on the back of your calfs, your amp placement would be perfect." |
I jam with a group of folks once a year, party always hosted by Dan #1 (former colleagu in computer software, not music). About eight of us, four are Dans 
Dan #2 on 6-string, knows all the old tunes, and he sings, extremely competent, but lacks ANY sense of dynamics. Everything played loud, through his black-face Twin, placed level on the floor behind him. There I am on the other side of the room.... and it HURTS! Supply of foam earplugs is essential.
Everyone wants to hear themselves, especially gung-ho amateurs with few opportunities to "BE A STAR!"
I don't know these guys very well, hence my reluctance to broach this issue. But last time was just too much. I owe it to all of us to man up. Next summer I intend to take him aside for a discreet chat. I actually like this guy, and won't demean him, so I'm going with this:
(1) "Dan, you are a great guitar player!"
(2) You're a great singer, too. Harmony vocals with you are fun. Wish WE could hear the vocals better.
(3) Last year was soooo loud, vocals got lost, and I couldn't relax.
(4) Can YOU suggest anything to help?
(5) Here's something that has worked well for me... are you willing to try it? I place/orient my amp so I get the best chance to hear myself. Everyone else does the same.
(6) Can we turn down for vocals, honor the harmony, make room for each other's fills and solos?
If he shoots me down, there is no hope. On the other hand, what if he says, "YES!" |
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Bobby Hearn
From:
Henrietta, Tx
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Posted 31 May 2016 7:18 pm
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| You're fired! |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 31 May 2016 7:46 pm
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Henry, why don't you choose one of your steel playing forum buddy's and give that buddy the guitar players email address if he has one. Let one of us send him an email. I actually have one ready to go as I am the band leader and recently had to address a similar situation. I typed out a full page of what I expect from each player in the band if I am to remain the band leader. We can make the message clear and give good reasons why. As you know two like notes played at the same time by two different instrument kill the tone of both much less make noise instead of music. Give me or someone else here his email address. If he don't heed the advise I see good reason to leave the group and tell them why.
Jerry
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http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Sven Kontio
From:
Sweden
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Posted 31 May 2016 9:44 pm
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Henry, I just want to give you my 0.02 worth of advice:
I play in a band (trad. stone country music) and we have a guitar player (electric) supposed to play back-up and lead. Now, instead of playing back-up he´s playing all the time, like some sort of rhythm guitar, and when he plays lead (i.e. a solo) he also plays all the time, leaving no space for anyone to play back-up behind him. He doesn´t understand the concept of taking turns. I have even talked to him nicely, asking him to leave the guitar alone during the verses when the singer does his thing and fill in the gaps between the phrases, but he thinks it feels awqward not to play... So I humbly tell him he´s just creating a musical mess leaving no air in the song. I´ve told him "A good player knows when to play... A great player knows when NOT to play!". No result.
At the end of the day there´s nothing else to do than to say:
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Sez Adamson
From:
South Africa
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Posted 1 Jun 2016 3:13 am
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Just a bit of tongue in cheek.
Write out some charts for some of your regular tunes.
That already might have an impact.
Then put in some interesting looking signs on the paper.
When he asks what they mean, tell him that's when the guitar player picks up a 5 pound weight and hold it above his head for the next 12 bars.
There is reason why I enjoy playing on my own so much.
But nothing beats playing with a bunch of musicians who have empathy for the music, and for their fellow band members. |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2016 6:02 am
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One of the biggest parts of good playing is good listening. Just my opinion...
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
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Posted 13 Jun 2016 7:12 am
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How did this thread get resurrected??
This kinda question pops up all the time. Makes me wonder, who are you guys playing with? You can't discuss dynamics & arrangements with your bandmates?? Seriously??
Weird. Just weird. |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 13 Jun 2016 8:59 am
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Oh baby, baby it's a weird world. 
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Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2016 11:49 am
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| Chris Walke wrote: |
How did this thread get resurrected??
This kinda question pops up all the time. Makes me wonder, who are you guys playing with? You can't discuss dynamics & arrangements with your bandmates?? Seriously??
Weird. Just weird. |
You can but evidently, they don't understand a word I say. Dynamics have to do with cars & arrangements with flowers to some of these guys.
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2016 12:13 pm
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How old is he?
If he's (assuming it's a guy) older than about 20 yrs. it's probably beyond hope. He's got a permanent case of MARSS. Middle aged rock star syndrome. A good friend of mine has this dreaded affliction. A cryin' shame too he's a good player, and guy.
Ever walk into a crowded place with people talking and there is ONE GUY who is talking louder than everybody else? You can hear his voice over 10 conversations, all happening at the same time.
Look at it another way.
The poor guy(assuming it's a guy) probably gets no respect elsewhere so he compensates with a six string electric noise maker.
Another friendly solution is go to the bar, ask the bartender for a bucket of cold water and dump it on his head in the most friendly way. Works everytime.
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Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2016 12:33 pm
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Give him a chart with lots of whole rests or tacets, and demand that he reads the chart. If he can't read , it's good, and if he can read, it's good. Either way should shut him up.
It's the old joke about keeping a guitar player silent -- put a chart in front of him.
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 14 Jun 2016 8:50 am
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I've found that players who don't listen to other players, or have any of the other deficiencies we're all familiar with(and sometimes share!) tend to collect in bands who can't command much money-because their work isn't worth anything. Bands who do sound good and command decent bux won't put up with bad players who devalue their product and don't have the problem Henry has so clearly articulated. My solution, having learned the hard way,is not to take gigs with bands who can't earn.To me,it's not worth it to burn time and gas,schlep my rig around,have my ears get beat up, and then pay for the privilege.
My answer to the question of what you tell the guitar player is not to say anything. Just don't be there. These guys are grown men and your professional responsibility does not include hand-holding. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 14 Jun 2016 9:53 am
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i've known a few guitarists who were very good, but due to ADD or something once they get on a roll it's hard for them to get off it. i don't think they're really aware of it.
the annoyance can become a problem. |
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Steve Schmidt
From:
Ramsey, MN, USA
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Posted 14 Jun 2016 5:48 pm
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| Put a piece of sheet music in front of him. |
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