| Author |
Topic: Music copyrighting |
Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
|
Posted 24 May 2016 2:59 am |
|
I understand the need for copyrights. Here's something I don't understand...
A local radio station was recently told that they could not stream the musical part of their programming. They had also used a good country song (about 45 seconds of it) as a roll in to a call in program. They were told they could no longer use it, but if a local group wanted to write a new song, they could use it.
What gives? Used to be, singers and groups wanted their music played so that people would buy the music and come to their concerts...
Even in church, we have to pay a licensing fee to show the words of songs on screen, and pay over $75 for a performance track CD for a choir cantata. All that, and the church doesn't make anything or charge to come to our worship services. My opinion, if I see a song that I can't download from SongSelect (which here again, we pay for) I would not allow it to be sung in church.
Just saying, looks like writers, singers, and groups are shooting themselves in the foot.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
|
|
 |
Tim Russell
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
|
Posted 24 May 2016 3:46 am
|
|
I believe in the case of a radio station it has more to do with the record company licensing. If the radio station will not pay those steep licensing fees, they are not able to play the music. Seems like a dumb rule, especially since mot stations probably only want to use the music as intro or bumper clips.
Although, I thought they were able to play a few short seconds of a song...I could be wrong on that, however.
_________________
Sierra Crown D-10 |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 24 May 2016 4:26 am
|
|
ASCAP/BMI charge licensing fees and one way they "protect" the songwriters. We used to book a lot of RV parks with Nashville singers here in Florida. But because of the licensing fees or threat thereof many parks no longer book acts. It cut down to the point not many singers come to Florida in the winter to do tours.
The place where we have our Steel Guitar Club Jams has weekly shows during the winter. The owner pays a $1200 annual fee to either ASCAP or BMI (not sure which) to be legal.
On the other hand, Herby Wallace posted one time that he went to the licensing agencies about songs on his CD's or for songs he wanted to record. They didn't want to talk to him or concerned because of the relative low number of sales. It would cost them more in administrative costs than the royalties they would potentially get. |
|
|
|
Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
|
Posted 24 May 2016 4:42 am
|
|
| Tim Russell wrote: |
I believe in the case of a radio station it has more to do with the record company licensing. If the radio station will not pay those steep licensing fees, they are not able to play the music. Seems like a dumb rule, especially since mot stations probably only want to use the music as intro or bumper clips.
Although, I thought they were able to play a few short seconds of a song...I could be wrong on that, however. |
Problem is, the station DOES pay all those fees. That's what makes it so weird.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
|
|
|
Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
|
Posted 24 May 2016 5:44 am
|
|
Streaming licenses and broadcast licenses are different.
It's not clear to me that your station had both.
h |
|
|
|
Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
|
Posted 24 May 2016 5:49 am
|
|
And yet, most of the artists say they are broke ! Makes ya wonder where the money's going huh ? Oh....silly me...record execs are still buying porche's and mansions in a supposedly financially faltering industry ! Are they wondering where their next meal is gonna come from yet ? 
_________________
D.S. Rigsby |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 24 May 2016 7:08 am
|
|
| Things would be so much better if we could just pay the writers directly. That way, we'd know the money was getting to the right people. As it is now, nobody knows who gets what. |
|
|
|
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
|
Posted 24 May 2016 8:25 am
|
|
| Dustin Rigsby wrote: |
| And yet, most of the artists say they are broke ! Makes ya wonder where the money's going huh ? Oh....silly me...record execs are still buying porche's and mansions in a supposedly financially faltering industry ! Are they wondering where their next meal is gonna come from yet ? |
Mansions on ranches, drugs/alcohol, cars (some have several), child support, etc... And just pissing money away. And most are probably liars about their financial condition.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
|
|
|
Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
|
Posted 24 May 2016 5:40 pm Re: Music copyrighting
|
|
| Scott Duckworth wrote: |
I understand the need for copyrights. Here's something I don't understand...
A local radio station was recently told that they could not stream the musical part of their programming. They had also used a good country song (about 45 seconds of it) as a roll in to a call in program. They were told they could no longer use it, but if a local group wanted to write a new song, they could use it.
|
I'm not a lawyer. This does not constitute legal advice, it's just what the voices in my head tell me to write.
This is just the usual ASCAP/BMI (or whatever) thing.
They may be down to mechanical licenses ( ala Harry Fox agency ) if a local band records a cover of the song. Generally more reasonable, although I don't know about repetitive use and especially with a radio station.
I do know that some TV shows, like "Sons of Anarchy", commissioned covers of songs because the Harry Fox licenses are less onerous than the BMI/ASCAP (or, again, whatever) ones, especially for rebroadcast.
I only know about getting licenses per CD for an artist covering a song directly.
| Quote: |
What gives? Used to be, singers and groups wanted their music played so that people would buy the music and come to their concerts...
|
You may have noticed this thing called "The Internet".  More exposure than a .. nudist skier. It's harder to make that argument now.
The church might be able to find and get a plan from an entertainment attorney. I doubt the radio station goes without legal counsel...
| Quote: |
Even in church, we have to pay a licensing fee to show the words of songs on screen, and pay over $75 for a performance track CD for a choir cantata. All that, and the church doesn't make anything or charge to come to our worship services. My opinion, if I see a song that I can't download from SongSelect (which here again, we pay for) I would not allow it to be sung in church.
Just saying, looks like writers, singers, and groups are shooting themselves in the foot. |
Probably. Maybe not. |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 24 May 2016 7:49 pm
|
|
without knowing the EXACT purpose of using the music this is all speculation. Regardless , copyrighted music has nothing to do with record company execs owning nice cars. If a person wants a license to place a song on a CD, you can gt it for as little or as many copies as you desire. fill in the blank. The admin fee is the same. If you go thru the FOX agency which is very easy it doesn't matter if it's ASCAP or BMI, the administration portion covers that. Knowing exactly what the radio station was doing , how often and for how long is the key.
One of the most famous songs being used for bumper music is the Pretenders on a daily AM radio show , that show pays approx $300,000 /year to use it. The license allows for it to be used for a certain amount of times and minutes as well, so when they reach that limit they update the license if necessary. No different than using 10 songs on a CD, you pay for 100 sales, when you get near 100 you upgrade the license. the difference is you pay the admin fee again.
ya gotta know the purpose of the music, how long and how often before discussing costs.
If an original artist wants to write music for a theme thats a different deal, these days, that music is leased for bursts of time. Leasing sites and are replacing buying licenses to use music. All those TV shows where we hear great clips, thats all leased .
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
Last edited by Tony Prior on 9 Jun 2016 2:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
|
Posted 25 May 2016 1:11 am
|
|
This all goes way back to when records and radio were both new. Would playing a record on air make people more likely to go out and buy it or less? I don't think anyone ever figured out the answer.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
|
|
|
Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
|
Posted 25 May 2016 9:09 am
|
|
In my opinion, radio stations playing artist's music took them from being a local artist to a broader spectrum. I can remember when the actual artist visited the radio station to drop off a record or tape.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
|
|
|
ajm
From:
Los Angeles
|
Posted 8 Jun 2016 7:50 am
|
|
Regarding Harry Fox........
Last year I tried licensing 2-3 cover songs that I recorded to put them on my web site. Not for sale or download, just for listening/streaming only.
Harry Fox did not have a couple of them available.
One thing led to another, and I ended up licensing them through Easy Song Licensing (I think they're in Minneapolis). |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 9 Jun 2016 2:22 am
|
|
| ajm wrote: |
Regarding Harry Fox........
Last year I tried licensing 2-3 cover songs that I recorded to put them on my web site. Not for sale or download, just for listening/streaming only.
Harry Fox did not have a couple of them available.
One thing led to another, and I ended up licensing them through Easy Song Licensing (I think they're in Minneapolis). |
not uncommon , the markets are very competitive these days, down to the pennies !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
