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Topic: Is There A "Real"/ or "Any" Pedal Steel Guitar Dictionary? |
Weldon Grice
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Posted 12 May 2016 5:49 pm |
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All, yes you! Is there a dictionary, a real dictionary of pedal steel guitar terms and meanings? I have spent hours now trying to learn about PSG for the past several months by reading your posts and articles, gripes, justifications, comments, rants, and all about PSG. People say one thing and then 15 postings later, first person still really doesn't know what everybody said. Why? Everybody is speaking the same language differently with too many different dialects. This post will be taken totally wrong by the time the third person reads the forth reply.
Now lets start here...I'm willing to gather and put together "A Dictionary" of terms and verbiage, with all of you good peoples help. Why you ask? Because I want to know what I'm playing and maybe, just maybe help somebody else find their way through this mess called "Pedal Steel Guitar"!. |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 12 May 2016 5:54 pm
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You mean steel pedal guitar?
_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 13 May 2016 6:11 am
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The first terms I'd like to see covered are which is the front and which is the back of the guitar.
But really, good luck with levers. Not to mention the pedals, oy veh. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 13 May 2016 7:10 am
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| I'd try the "Anthology of Pedal Steel Guitar" by Scotty. I learned a lot from that book. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 13 May 2016 1:35 pm
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The names and descriptions of pedal steel parts can be found at http://steelguitar.com/mapIntro.html
The most common strangeness in the pedal steel lexicon is "tempered tuning", which many players use to describe just intonation. JI is the only tuning system that's not tempered.
_________________
-š¯•“š¯•†š¯•“- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 13 May 2016 1:51 pm
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I have to admit that I'd like to see a glossary/ dictionary. Being a lap-steel and dobro guy, there are terms such as 'bolt on' , 'split-tail', 'cut-back', 'push-pull vs. etc etc , and quite a bit of technical electronic bits, component parts, that would be interesting to find on a single source.....google works pretty good for most. And all you guys already know the lexicon, so its more of an issue for fa-noogies like me.
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 May 2016 1:56 pm
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| Right you are, b0b! Another confusing point is that tuning "straight up" most always means "tempered", in some fashion. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 13 May 2016 2:31 pm
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| I take "straight up" to mean just one particular temperament: Equal Temperament. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 13 May 2016 3:07 pm
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| I demonstrate the meaning of 'straight up' a few posts down HERE. It just doesn't work. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 13 May 2016 4:17 pm
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many forum members talk 'over the head' of new players which can be very confusing.
very simple answers would be best for most people until they ask for more. many members are overly gung ho about spewing out their massive knowledge, right or wrong.
the winston/keith book 'pedal steel guitar'
is a good place to start with basic useable knowledge. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 13 May 2016 4:40 pm
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| Brooks Montgomery wrote: |
| I have to admit that I'd like to see a glossary/ dictionary. Being a lap-steel and dobro guy, there are terms such as 'bolt on' , 'split-tail', 'cut-back', 'push-pull vs. etc etc , and quite a bit of technical electronic bits, component parts, that would be interesting to find on a single source.....google works pretty good for most. And all you guys already know the lexicon, so its more of an issue for fa-noogies like me. |
'Bolt on', 'split-tail', 'cut-back' ... I think these are specific to early Emmons models. To tell the truth, I've been playing steel for 45 years and I don't know what they mean. 
_________________
-š¯•“š¯•†š¯•“- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 13 May 2016 6:04 pm
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Cutback, as opposed to fatback, is most steels. The rear apron is taller at the ends than in most of the width of the guitar, because the, ummmm, back, got errr, cut.
The "Bolt-on" refers to some Emmons pillow blocks getting bolted to the deck from the top, so the bolts are visible.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tim Russell
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 13 May 2016 6:14 pm
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| Quote: |
'Bolt on', 'split-tail', 'cut-back' ... I think these are specific to early Emmons models. To tell the truth, I've been playing steel for 45 years and I don't know what they mean. |
You & me both, bob - I haven't a clue either.
For that matter, I'm still not certain if my Sierra D-10 is a Crown or an Olympic, and I've played Sierras since the early 80's!
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Sierra Crown D-10 |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 13 May 2016 6:20 pm
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The three types of Emmons p/p changer mounts:
Cut tail refers to the changer mount. Cut back refers to the rear apron that is cut away to allow for knee space.
As I've said in the past, my apologies for lack of photo credit. I don't know where i got this. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 May 2016 7:26 pm
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| Brint Hannay wrote: |
| I take "straight up" to mean just one particular temperament: Equal Temperament. |
Problem is, there are many different equal temperaments used in Western music, and they're different (as I understand it) primarily to acommodate various instruments. So, the ET tuning for a piano, a pedal steel, a violin, and a regular guitar are all actually different. (Equal, but unequal?) I guess this is why a guitar tuner doesn't work particularly well for pedal steel, or some other instruments, like a piano. |
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Weldon Grice
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Posted 13 May 2016 10:48 pm Is There A "Real"/ or "Any" Pedal Steel Guitar Dictionary?
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Any more thoughts, suggestions, advice? I would like to put together an information folder(call it what you want, on-line book)in one place that can be a resource for new and experienced players. I have the time to put toward doing this as I'm medically retired. Putting together a true and meaningful "Dictionary / Description of Playing Terms" in a manner that could be understood by all levels of players should help all who play / and or want to learn to play. If you don't learn something new every day, you've wasted a day.
I just need your true help in gathering information and then we'll run the information past everybody to see if it is correct or how many definitions there are for the same word/terminally. If it is a particular technique or design terminology, then credit must be given to originator(if known). Will this pass muster bOb on terms of staying legal and keeping it free to all? I do not wish to make any money on this endeavor. |
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Georg SĆørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 14 May 2016 1:01 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Problem is, there are many different equal temperaments used in Western music, and they're different (as I understand it) primarily to acommodate various instruments. So, the ET tuning for a piano, a pedal steel, a violin, and a regular guitar are all actually different. (Equal, but unequal?) I guess this is why a guitar tuner doesn't work particularly well for pedal steel, or some other instruments, like a piano. |
Right, and if we go into exact tuning of Equal Temperament, hardly any two pianos, and hardly any two steels, can be tuned exactly to the same frequencies - as derived from the ideal ET scale - if we want them to sound (more or less) exactly in tune with themselves and each other, because of each instrument's idiosyncrasies. And once we get into upper and lower octaves stretch, it differs even more, and gets furter complicated by the psychoacoustics of the human ear.
Now, there is only one true Equal Temperament tuning, even though it has to be compromised a little in practice. And these "unequal" or "compromising" factors play the same role in Just Intonation tunings (there are more than one JI tuning available), and all the various forms for Tempered Tunings (degrees of sweetening, etc), as in ET tuning.
Even a pure sinus-tone gererator runs into the psychoacoustics of the human ear and needs upper and lower octaves stretching to sound in tune with itself and anything else over several octaves.
Complex stuff (at least if we want it to be), so let us "blame" the instruments, strings, our ears etc., for all compromises we have to make while tuning our instruments, and stick to the simpler, and very basic, thoughts around ET, various sweetenings, and JI tunings. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 14 May 2016 6:48 am
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There is another thread, 'Tuning alternative?' Maybe it offers an alternative to tuning.
Like the wildebeast, the pedal steel is seemingly designed by committee. The piano was designed by committee but it took longer.
The names of psg parts should probably stabilize this century, but I don't know about the nomenclature of pedals and levers,
let alone whether one sits at the front or back of the steel; one would think it would be at the front, like a piano.
The girls stand at the back, right?
Altho the girls don't care whether you call it your D lever or RKL, so it's possible such terms won't stabilize at all, an individual thing
Certainly, the blood pressure of ET vs JI is keeping up, a discussion probably as old on the piano.
Nothing else but ET works on piano. Pedal steel offers more. Or sometimes less.... |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 14 May 2016 6:49 am
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i find it amazing what so many of you don't know.
wow!
i would recommend the op spend a good 5 to 10 years playing and gathering information before he tries to write a dictionary. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 14 May 2016 7:16 am
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It's why we have fresh faces.
But I agree about your time frame. Tom Bradshaw and others are only now compiling such data.
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From Jon's link: straight up tuning.
I would be more interested in a steel regulation manual--whether to rough in pedals first or work back from the changer.
There seems to be enough agreement about the names of action parts, but still some differences in function, so I don't know. |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 14 May 2016 7:36 am
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| Quote: |
| The "Bolt-on" refers to some Emmons pillow blocks getting bolted to the deck from the top, so the bolts are visible.' |
What's a "pillow block"?
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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Georg SĆørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 14 May 2016 7:53 am
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| Steven Paris wrote: |
| What's a "pillow block"? |
The block the changer axle rests on/in at either end. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 14 May 2016 8:02 am
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I Weldon wasn't confused before, he sure will be now!  |
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Weldon Grice
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Posted 14 May 2016 12:29 pm Please Close b0b
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| Please close this up b0b. Thanks. |
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