Can somebody explain what this means?

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

I remember seeing Jery Roller tellin someone on the forum about a "Tammy Wynett Lick" he said" creating a 5/3/55/3 interval" or somethin like that.
I've heard steel players at live shows call out similar numbers right before they start a song. what do the numbers mean?
not that I'll ever need to use em, just curious.
Terry

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Zum D10 /8x5 / session 500rd
steelin for my Lord

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

They're calling out chord changes using the Nashville Number System.

example: in the key of C
1151 is C C G C

A search for the Nashville Number System will give you lots of reading.

Here's one: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum8/HTML/001928.html

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

AH HA! I thought it had something to do with the Nashville number system.

Thanks Joey
Terry

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Zum D10 /8x5 / session 500rd
steelin for my Lord

Scott Denniston · From: Hahns Peak, Colorado, USA

You know, I learned how to harmonize scales long before I ever heard of the "Nashville Number System" and have always wondered what it had to do with Nashville. Musicians have always transposed in terms of II,V,I etc. Then I guess someone in Nashville thought They'd just invented music I guess. Go figya??

Bill C. Buntin · Posted 3 Dec 2004 3:08 pm

Music theory (harmony)in most music major university programs is taught by number. Or at least was when I went to music school. Nashville, or commercial music in general just made it a little more simple by the following example.

In classical music theory a change may be written as: I ii V I

In commercial numbers or "Nashville numbers" it would be: 1251

Just depends on what "school" you came from and how you interpret it. The meanings are the same. One is as right and functional as the other.

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

It's worth mentioning that the numbers
1151 are spoken as "Eleven Fifty-One".

No one says "one, one, five, one".

After using them for a while you get to recognise common ones. Say "Sixteen Forty-Five" and immediatly can hear a 1950's Do-Wop" progression, or "Let'sTwist Again".

[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 03 December 2004 at 03:16 PM.]

Dave Horch · From: Frederick, Maryland, USA

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Sure we say that.
I was playing in Drogheda with Pete Grant on a song with some cool, but very odd, changes

During and early pass he would hold up the fingers for the numbers.

This is similar to the Berklee system for transposing for singers.

if you play by the numbers of the chord degrees in the key,
then if the girl singer wants to sing in Ab
and the guy wants F
and the head is in Bb
you just switch key, and play the same form.

Works great. I have done the above in the same song with 2 singers and a sax, each time a different key, but the same chart..

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 06 December 2004 at 03:40 AM.]

RON PRESTON · From: Dodson, Louisiana, USA

Joey, Didn't one of the members of the "Hoovie Lester & the Statesmen" Southern Gospel Quartet back in the '50s come up with the Nasville # system? I had heard this from an Interview years ago from ONE of the "Heavyweight" Group Members on TV if I am not mistaken. Maybe it was "J.D. Summner & the Stamps" but I'm not sure. Anyway.....I'm happy it was Invented because when your "LIVE" on Stage and the SOUNDMAN is Running SIX CS-800s and FOUR CS-400s WIDE OPEN and FULL THROTTLE because the place is a HOLE-N-THE-WALL" and the SEATING CAPACITY at BEST is a WHOLE 75 PEOPLE, So HE Says: "We NEED MORE POWER, MORE POWER, This is the BIGGEST PLACE we've Played YET, Dudes"

(That INCLUDES the OWNER, BARTENDER, BARMAID, AND the SEVEN PIECE BAND)and ABOVE IT ALL, you SCREEM: "WHAT FRIGGIN' KEY WE IN?" and EVERYBODY ANSWERS at the SAME TIME: "We "B" in the Key of...B...D...E...C...G..." And I answer: "F"??? "OHHH, OK, Ahhh, Yea, The Key of..."GEEEEE"....Well, ALRIGHT THEN, Thanks Guys!" And I STILL SOUND Like,...Well, YOU KNOW,......

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Emmons S-10 4 & 5
Evans FET 500, Session 400 LTD, ProFex 11

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I played for one of those amateur wannabes for a couple of weeks. The guitar player and I were calling numbers at rehearsal. The guy sais that no uses that system anymore and we should just name the chords within thew key. We both quit the next day.

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

If you're writing down number charts as opposed to verbalizing them, it's really best to use roman numerals.
That way, if you wish to embellish the chords with 7ths, #9's, etc, they won't be confused with the chord values.
Oh, and don't try to write a number chart for "How High The Moon" or "Whisper Not". It'll just give you a headache.

-John

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www.ottawajazz.com

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Yes John, good point .
I always prefered the roman versions for this reason.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 07 December 2004 at 11:23 AM.]

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Ron,
I don't think anyone can prove who first used the system. I suspect it was long before Nashville even existed. Still that's the name it's most known by, so I use it.

As for my comment that nobody says "one, one", let me rephrase it:

"It's most comon to say "eleven, instead of one one".

Take an very easy progression:
(Jambalaya)
11 55
55 11

If you call it,
"eleven, fifty-five, fifty-five, eleven" I'll remember it much easier than if you said, "one, one, five, five, five, five, one, one".

Try this with a more dificult progression, with three or four chords, (not "All The Things That You Are", John), and see how complex it gets to speak the numbers.

As mentioned above, transposition is where this system in very valuable.

The logic behind a Pedal Steel Guitar is ideally suited to the Number System.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I sat in with a few groups in Nashville and had no problem,
didn't even think about it, the system just worked.

Scott Denniston · From: Hahns Peak, Colorado, USA

edited- weak joke

[This message was edited by Scott Denniston on 07 December 2004 at 01:11 PM.]

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Terry, I'll add this in here in case it got missed over on "tablature"... A lot of people think of the number system as just shorthand for song changes, but it can be so much more, a basis for understanding just about everything about music and our guitars. The numbers are useful for much more besides just noting chord progressions. Any of the "rules" which we use can be thought of, learned, and remembered through numbers. For example, you may know that a "four" chord can be substituted or augmented with a "2 minor"- ie: A song like "Help Me Make It Through the Night" has a verse progression of I-IV-V-I (or G-C-D-G in the key of G). Adding this substitution makes it: I-IV/IIm-V-I (G-C to Am- D- G). Again, most of us know that whenever we move from a G to a C, we can use a G7- in numbers, from a I to a IV chord, we can transition through a I7 (or I augmented, or I# diminished), and the same going back from a V to a I, so the progression then becomes: I-I7-IV-IIm-V-V7-I (G-G7-C-Am-D-D7-G) In this way you can remember these kinds of progressions and options for any key, by keeping the number system as your "base math" for keeping track of it all. This stays as simple, or gets as deep, as you want... for instance, a jazzer's trick to get all the altered notes (b5,#5, b9, #9) that sound so "hip" against dominant chords, is to play out of the scale or arpeggio that is up a flatted fifth interval from the target chord. In simpler form, playing Db dominant scales over G dominant chord yeilds the b5,#5,b9,and #9 of G... a lot easier than playing/remembering a completely altered G scale. Whenever you learn a new lick or phrase, instead of thinking of it as a lick going from a particular song, if you think of it as a I-V or V-I phrase,(or whatever it fits over), it's much easier to remember and fit into other places. There are many more such uses for the number system. I think it's the single greatest tool for speeding up our comprehension and retention. You just can't go wrong by using the system in your study and communication.

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Thanks for all the posts guys. I agree the number system can be very useful. a few months ago I printed off a Nashville number system chart and had a copy made for all the musicians at church. It would be nice for all of us to learn this system, it would make it a lot easier. but, so far they hadn't shown much interest in it. Oh well.
we'll just keep on Bflattin-Eflattin-Cin and Fin

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Zum D10 /8x5 / session 500rd
steelin for my Lord

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