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Topic: Is it my pickup? Low power, thin sound, noticeable hum.... |
Joe Alterio
From:
Irvington, Indiana
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Posted 22 Mar 2016 4:33 am |
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Hi all,
I've noticed that after I have transported my steel and set it up, it never seems to sound right at first. I thought it was my amp....but yesterday after setting up my steel, I made sure I had my other amps close by to rule out my amp being the problem.
So, what's happening? When I plug the steel in to the amp (and each time I have been doing it direct, to rule out the pedals in the chain) there is noticeably low amplification. When I play the steel, there is no bass to be heard...everything sounds very thin. And there is a VERY noticeable hum. So...I unplug, replug, unplug, replug, etc. and that doesn't work. I mess with the pickup wires....still no. But then, out of the blue, the pickup returns to normal. Usually this takes about 5 minutes.
I have a Lawrence 710. Could it be something to do with the windings inside? Anybody else experience this?
Thanks!
Joe  |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 22 Mar 2016 5:38 am
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Try resoldering the pickup wires. Clean off the old solder.
My guess is a cold solder joint. At least that is a cheap and easy fix.
Also if you have a multi meter check the ohms when it sounds thin. If is half the amount that it should be you may be shorting out one coil. Careful wit this because 710's have unusual ohm ratings compared to standard.
_________________
Bob |
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Joe Alterio
From:
Irvington, Indiana
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Posted 22 Mar 2016 8:17 am
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| Thanks, Bob - but wouldn't my jiggling the pickup wires have at least caused some intermittent fixing of the issue (if only for a second)? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 22 Mar 2016 9:11 am
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You might think so, but not always.
Occam's Razor and all that.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 22 Mar 2016 9:25 am
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Any chance your steel and/or cables/equipment have been exposed to high moisture air?
Transportation in colder conditions may cause electric leakage and partly shortage if moisture is present, which slowly fixes itself when the items gets warmed up. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 22 Mar 2016 10:03 am
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| Joe Alterio wrote: |
| Thanks, Bob - but wouldn't my jiggling the pickup wires have at least caused some intermittent fixing of the issue (if only for a second)? |
Maybe.. but it might not effect a cold solder joint. They can look good and be solid and still no worky.
Sometimes going over all the connections can fix things. Maybe the jack is screwy.
The 710's are built like tanks. I have never heard of one having that problem/
_________________
Bob |
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Joe Alterio
From:
Irvington, Indiana
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Posted 22 Mar 2016 11:17 am
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| Georg Sørtun wrote: |
Any chance your steel and/or cables/equipment have been exposed to high moisture air?
Transportation in colder conditions may cause electric leakage and partly shortage if moisture is present, which slowly fixes itself when the items gets warmed up. |
Well, it has happened at times when I pulled the steel out of the case after it had been sitting in my music room for several days....thus, there was no change in temperature/humidity (other than from the case to the room surrounding it...so should be minimal). I do have a humidifier running in the room at all times and keep the relative humidity at 40% - 50% but the room is always at 70 - 72 degrees. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 22 Mar 2016 1:00 pm
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| OK, I'll go for resoldering of PU wires then, and while doing that check for loose strands at those points that may cause intermittent contact. Also, check that the contact surfaces in the jack-connection are good and clean. |
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Chris Boyd
From:
Leonia,N.J./Charlestown,R.I.
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 22 Mar 2016 6:17 pm
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Loosen, and then re-tighten the jack in the guitar. Been there, done that. Long story.  |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 23 Mar 2016 3:37 am
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| Once the guitar is setup and the pickup output returns to normal, does the problem ever reoccur while the unit remains upright? If not, appears that this is happening while it is in the inverted position in the case (another vote for a cold solder joint or a wire making contact where it shouldn't). |
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Jason Duguay
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2016 4:29 pm
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I was dealing with something very similar recently, it turned out to be the neck selector rocker switch not making a clean connection. If the soldering iron doesn't solve the issue try some contact cleaner on the business end of the rocker.
_________________
Ralph. Mooney. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 24 Mar 2016 4:59 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Loosen, and then re-tighten the jack in the guitar. Been there, done that. Long story. |
Good point. Aluminum makes for a lousy contact surface. Make sure the star washer bites well into it. |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2016 3:27 am
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If it's not a weak cord or the amp itself (Peaveys often get nasty spots on the pots)
(as Lane says - Occam's Razor) then it has to be associated with the pickup or the pickup's
associated wiring.
My .02 cents.
_________________
Jb in Ohio
..................................
GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
.................................. |
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Gary Peaslee
From:
Hideaway, TX USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2016 12:50 pm
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| Joe - I had a similar problem and after checking everything, it turned out to be a bad BL 705 pickup. The problem was very random which made it hard to figure out. |
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Jerry Erickson
From:
Atlanta,IL 61723
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Posted 27 Mar 2016 4:47 pm
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It sounds like an open winding in the pickup that is self healing to me. If you have a volt/ohm meter, you might want to measure the impedance of the pickup. I think that those are supposed to read around 20-22,000 ohms. You should probably remove the hot lead from the circuit to be sure that you're getting an accurate reading.
I have a Epiphone Electar D-8 and played a gig with it once where it was sounding thin and low output.I measured the pickups with my meter and got a reading in the millions of ohms. I removed one of the pickups to send off to get rewound, but when I measured the pickup out of the guitar, it read around 6,500 ohms. This was probably ok for a single coil pickup from this era. So I replaced the switch and pots and the guitar sounded fine again. |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2016 6:09 am Is it my pickup? low powe, thin sound, noticable hum
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| Educate me on a cold solder joint. I thought they are caused by not getting the solder and what you are soldering it to not hot enough. The solder joint looks sort of gray instead of bright. Since he has not had a problem in the past, does that mean a cold solder joint has suddenly manifested itself? Is that possible, that a good solder joint can become a cold solder joint over time? If it were me, as a layman, I would clean and redo all the solder joints and see if that takes care of the problem. If not, then I would be shopping for a new pickup. |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2016 6:10 pm Re: Is it my pickup? low powe, thin sound, noticable hum
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| George Kimery wrote: |
| Educate me on a cold solder joint. I thought they are caused by not getting the solder and what you are soldering it to not hot enough. The solder joint looks sort of gray instead of bright. Since he has not had a problem in the past, does that mean a cold solder joint has suddenly manifested itself? Is that possible, that a good solder joint can become a cold solder joint over time? If it were me, as a layman, I would clean and redo all the solder joints and see if that takes care of the problem. If not, then I would be shopping for a new pickup. |
Cold solder joints will be fine and then wiggle loose. You'll end up with cracks or other voids in 'em, which will make for a really lo-quality diode that you don't want.
http://www.technolab.de/_en/solderdict/smdhmd/coldsolderjoints.php |
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Joe Alterio
From:
Irvington, Indiana
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Posted 2 Jun 2016 9:02 am
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Update
It was the pickup. It was losing power via a short or broken wrap (I saw a couple loose copper strands when I broke open the pickup casing), only putting out about 4,000 ohms. Rewinding the pickup is a bit out of my league...so going for a new one.
I put in a George-L SS10 from my wife's lap steel, and it is getting the job done....but sounds nothing like the Lawrence 710. Looking forward to a new Lawrence in the near future!
Thanks all for the input. I was hoping it was just the input jack.
On another note....I HATE changing out a pickup on a Zum. The routing of the pickup wire, the tiny springs....it's like changing a thermostat on a BMW..... |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 3 Jun 2016 12:26 am
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nice topic, I am dealing with this right now on a mid 90's
Legrande with stock Emmons single coils.
The C6th pup does indeed have some loose strands and although it sounds ok when alone, in the "both on" position the steel has lost all of it's sanity !
Also never overlook the selector switch as mentioned, they can easily be the source of "bad "stuff.
The end of the day good news is that the Steel is apart for full cleaning , rods, changers etc and I do not have a Steel with Humbuckers so this Steel was going to get two George L pups regardless.
But yep, the C6th SC pup is in trouble, who can say how or why...I mean all it does is just sit there ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Richard Wilhelm
From:
Ventura County, California
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Posted 3 Jun 2016 5:41 am
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Had a similar problem last week. Decided to rewire my pickup to the jack connections on my old Fender. Bipassing the old volume and tone controls and using some silver wire I had, that always gave me the brightest tone in whatever use I used. Worked good at first and then I turrned the steel on end and back, plugged it back in and she sounded like ****, exactly as Joe described. Turned out I did not have the pickups close enough to the strings. About 2 quarters distance is genrerlly recommended and that is correct.
_________________
"Be Kind to Animals, don't eat Them"
"If you know music, you°ll know most everything you°ll need to know" Edgar Cayce
"You're only young forever" Harpo Marx
Fender 400, Fender FM212, G&L ASAT.
Was part of a hippie-Christian store in Cotati, California (circa 1976) called THE EYE OF THE RAINBOW. May God love you. |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 3 Jun 2016 5:51 am
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I apologize if this has been mentioned--I skimmed and didn't see it--
I once had awful, thin sound and (after way too long) discovered a hair-thin strand of the pickup's grounding braid was loose at the output jack and shorting to the hot lug. Not enough to totally cut the sound but more than enough to wreck it.
This is part of my standard inspection ritual now. AND tinning braided leads is part of my standard installation procedure. |
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Joe Alterio
From:
Irvington, Indiana
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Posted 20 Jun 2016 4:55 pm
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I got my new Lawrence 710....and it is REALLY wonky. The sound is just not the same as the pickup I had (which I suspect was made in the '90s). The old 710 just had a beautiful tone. Not too thin, bright and clear (including the bass). This one just sounds thin. No matter what amp I play through, no matter how I set the bass or mids....the middle strings all sound shrill and brittle. Maybe something changed in the manufacture of these pickups in the past 20 years? Is there something else that will get me closer to that tone I loved?
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Tommy White
From:
Nashville
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Posted 20 Jun 2016 7:28 pm
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Hi Joe,
I also experienced the not so good sounding 710 pickups. Just for grins, I bought a few re-issue 705s. They are my favorite now. Rich, clean and full with the character of a good single coil. |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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