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Topic: Deluxe Reverb |
Mike Bowles
From:
Princeton, West Virginia, USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2016 1:46 pm |
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would a deluxe reverb be loud enough for a building that's about 60ftx 40ft with about 60 people? I only play steel on a few songs don't need to be really loud don't have to compete with the lead player. I can control him because I play lead. already have a 75 twin with 2 jbld120 speakers and a nv1ooo. a cube 80xl but im getting hooked on tubes. thanks.
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Mike Bowles |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 13 Mar 2016 4:21 pm
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The Deluxe might handle it if you are unencumbered by drums. If you have a drummer, bring the Twin.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2016 5:18 pm Re: Deluxe Reverb
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| Mike Bowles wrote: |
| would a deluxe reverb be loud enough ... don't need to be really loud don't have to compete with the lead player.... |
 A Deluxe Reverb can get pretty loud for the 20-22 watts it's claimed to be!!
Sould be fine - bring a mike just in case - you can hang it in front of your amp and run it through the board.
I use a mic'ed Princeton Reverb in front of 350 people
Also makes a difference if you are 40 ft from the opposite wall or 60 ft.
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--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Lee Dassow
From:
Jefferson, Georgia USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2016 6:40 pm
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Mike, If your thinking about buying a reissue deluxe
don't waste your time. I bought one two weeks ago
from MF and the first thing I notice was if I turned the reverb above three it became muddy. I figured,
okay, I can live with that. Then after about 45 minutes of playing through it. I started getting some popping and crackling. Well I sent it back. They wanted to know if I wanted another. I said no I'm done with new fender products. Tenn.Lee
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2015 Mullen D-10 Royal Precision 9x8,-1990 BMI S-10 5x5-1972 Silver face Fender pro Reverb amp,-1965 Fender Super Reverb Amp,- 1966 Fender Showman Amp Two 15" JBL speakers,- 2006 65 Fender Twin Reverb reissue Amp,- 1982 Peavey Session 500 amp,-1978 Peavey Session 400,Goodrich Volume Pedals,John Pearse Steel Bars, |
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Mike Bowles
From:
Princeton, West Virginia, USA
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Posted 14 Mar 2016 6:25 am deluxe reverb
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thanks guys been doing a lot of reading about deluxe reverbs I think I will just stay with my twin or nv 1000. gonna get rick Johnston to build me a head cab.thanks again.
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Mike Bowles |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 14 Mar 2016 6:49 am
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| Lee Dassow wrote: |
Mike, If your thinking about buying a reissue deluxe
don't waste your time. ... Well I sent it back. They wanted to know if I wanted another. I said no I'm done with new fender products. Tenn.Lee |
Their new guitar strings and cables are ok.
But a Fender amp? I'd spring for a silver face from the early 70's (50's, 60's if you're up to it) - still reasonably affordable, and easily repairable.
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Asa Brosius
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Posted 14 Mar 2016 10:01 am
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A ton of variables to the question- do you want to keep your sound clean? Drummer? Sensitive drummer? Mic'd? I've happily used a deluxe for a few years in many settings, and have only had issues once, unmic'd with a lound 6 piece.
That said, your twin looks great. |
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Michael Dulin
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 14 Mar 2016 3:41 pm deluxe reverb
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| Nothing like it under the sun...tone machine. Usually plenty loud, if not, mic it.MD |
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Tommy Mc
From:
Middlesex VT
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Posted 15 Mar 2016 4:39 am
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| FWIW, I have a silverface Deluxe Reverb that I acquired from another steel player. The original speaker had been replaced with a Fender Special Design 100 watt. The beefier speaker helps a little bit with the headroom, and it's a killer guitar amp. Just the right amount of breakup at club volume. Around the house, it's a sweet steel amp too. I tried it once with steel on stage with a loud lead player and it didn't cut through the mix. |
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Mike Bowles
From:
Princeton, West Virginia, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2016 9:13 am deluxe reverb
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thanks guys been doing a lot of reading I think I will stay with my twin and jbl d120f speakers I really like the sound I don't need to be too loud we have an excellent drummer and I play lead but the power is there if I do need it. thanks again.
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Mike Bowles |
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Josh Yenne
From:
Sonoma California
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Posted 15 Mar 2016 10:07 pm
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22 watts is plenty to play with most drummers as long as you don't mind a little "hair" on your tone (i don't)
But I will agree with previous posters... the new fender amps are kinda lifeless and harsh... there are boutique builders out there that are doing point to point wireing and not charging much more than a new fender.
That said I'd always rather show up to a backline and see a reissue fender deluxe than a Peavey or something...  |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2016 10:07 pm
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If It's NOT enough amp your drummer does not have enough control over his dynamics.
I've never had a problem with a DR playing with 4 different drummers: I jazz guy who has such good control I've played unmixed acoustic jobs with him, a country-rock guy and 2 rock drummers. All well-taught in how to play flat-out but at a very controlled volume.
At jams, OTOH, I've been drowned our by guys who thought they were John Bonham reincarnated.
And I quit one band - because the leader was the drummer, and he had no CLUE how to control himself.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 26 Mar 2016 10:32 pm
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I just played a coffee house gig tonight on PSG with my '63 DR. It worked great unmic'ed. No break up. Also, a local amp builder (R. Bemis) brought in one of his amps tonight. I tried it out for a set. It was very nice. A single channel DR without vibrato, packaged in a tweed deluxe 5E3 cabinet. Really nice amp, about 22 watts.
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To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 27 Mar 2016 1:15 am
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Ok I'll play..It's a nice small amp but it's NOT enough for a Steel guitar at bandstand levels. It's barely enough for a guitar player at bandstand levels.
I'm talking clean gain.
Every guitar player I have ever worked with that uses these amps sound exactly the same. Forget using any front pickup for clean chords at stage levels, ain't gonna happen. This is why the 40 watt HR Deluxe is Fenders #1 selling amp and has been for a couple of decades now.
This is a 22 watt amp., it's not intended to compete with a 50 watter or a 200 watt + Nashville 400, or even a Nashville 112.
But it is a nice amp, in it's own world.
IF all you are doing is playing a very small room, like a coffee house, it may be fine.
And yes, I have owned a few SF Deluxe R's, liked them all but they never found a place for any stage use.
sorry...this is the internet and all opinions count !
And no, I do not play in loud bands, not even close...
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Mike Bowles
From:
Princeton, West Virginia, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2016 6:39 am deluxe reverb
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thanks tony I have forgot about the deluxe I already have a 75 silverface twin with 2 jbl120f speakers a nv1000 fender stage 100 and cube 80xl its pretty good with my black box thanks again.
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Mike Bowles |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 27 Mar 2016 7:17 am
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Tony, you are spot on. If there's a drummer on the bandstand then the DR won't cut it. Unless you have it mic'ed. But even then it is tricky. I don't know how he does it, but Steve Fishell tours with Emmy Lou Harris and uses one. They must have really good sound reinforcement.
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To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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George McLellan
From:
Duluth, MN USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2016 11:03 am Larry lenhart?
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Larry, if you are reading this thread, I'd like to hear your feedback on how my Delux Reverb sounded over on your side of the jam this past Friday. I was on 4 volume.
Geo |
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Matthew Dawson
From:
Portland Oregon, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2016 1:28 pm
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| When I saw Greg Leisz with Bill Frisell they were both using a pair of DRRI's, one as a monitor and another miked up. Sounded great. I think it all depends on whether or not you have good sound reinforcement. |
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Cartwright Thompson
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Posted 27 Mar 2016 2:10 pm
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| If you have good sound reinforcement you could use a Champ and sound good. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 28 Mar 2016 1:36 am
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So basically with quality sound reinforcement, the DR is not being used on it's own merit. Apples and Oranges.
It seems these days, which ever forum we are on and whatever smaller amp we are talking about, it starts with...
"When you Mic it" ...
remember, I am not dissing the DR's , I am responding to a questions about an amp on it's "own merit" for Steel Guitar .
How someone else uses an amp has no bearing on how WE may use it.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2016 7:51 pm
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| Quote: |
This is a 22 watt amp., it's not intended to compete with a 50 watter or a 200 watt + Nashville 400, or even a Nashville 112.
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Tony, I respectfully disagree with you.
Partially because I have used a Deluxe Reverb WITH a drummer and full band and played perfectly clean on stage. The only "trick" - use a speaker engineered for more headroom and high efficiency. The stock Oxford or CTS will likely breakup early (although some of the CTS speakers will stay clean just fine).
Second - because power is the most misinterpreted "specification" in amplifier marketing, especially when it comes to volume. Power is almost irrelevant when compared to speaker efficiency and (when it comes to tube amps) using the right tubes and biasing the output tubes on the clean side.
some examples - the 35 watt Ampeg B-15 with an Altec speaker is an excellent stage amp, with more stage volume than most 100-watt solid state bass amps.
A stock Vox AC-30 (30 watts) buries the headroom and volume of most stock Fender 40-watt amps. In many cases one will hold up against a 60's Twin Reverb (80 watts).
Headroom and speaker efficiency are key. Power is not.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Dave Campbell
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 29 Mar 2016 1:25 am
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| there are a lot of variables to this, like how loud the people are in the room, how big is the bandstand, etc. i've tried to use the deluxe on a lot of different gigs, and most of the time it's great. there have been a few nights when i was clearly underpowered, and those nights sucked and i cursed myself for not bringing my twin. nowadays i bring the twin unless i've been able to do the gig with the deluxe successfully. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 29 Mar 2016 2:35 am
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| Jim Sliff wrote: |
Tony, I respectfully disagree with you.
Headroom and speaker efficiency are key. Power is not. |
It's fine to disagree, no problem with that but the fact of the matter is a 22 watt tube amp design ( see the old Red RCA Book) is not the same in clean gain / headroom as a 50 watter and it is not supposed to be. It is never about volume but rather clean gain/headroom. So power does matter. IRON matters...
we all know that even a 15 watt Blues Jr can chug out some pretty loud licks on the bandstand but it will never compete in the clean gain/headroom category with a big brother. When we design an amp with more power, re: 2 x 6L6 or 4x6L6 ,such as a Twin Reverb, we are not actually designing an amp to be literally 4 x louder , which it is not, we are designing an amp that will achieve clarity at bandstand levels. With that design comes the appropriate Iron (transformers) to match the peak performance criteria.
We can change speakers in the smaller amps all day long and to a degree we can improve the amp to it's peak design performance but we can't exceed it's peak performance.
When we say that we use amp XXX in a band with a drummer, what does that really mean ? Ok,it works for some but for many others, no it does not and that does not imply that bands are too loud. As Dave mentions right above, there are just way too many variables.
I never begrudge anyone for using gear that they use but I too have been around the block for 45 years. Historically I learned my big lessons early on even though I am still learning today.
One thing can never be argued, if you carry an amp such as a N400 or an 85 watt Twin Reverb you will never be short clean gain at ANY gig. Sure there are gigs where the DR will indeed cover the small room, no argument, but on the reverse, there are plenty of larger rooms where it will fall short because it is not intended to be the right amp in THAT situation.
I always laughed ( to myself) when I rolled into a small or moderate room with an old Twin and heard "oh that amps to big for this room" . Really ? Too big according to who ? Then when playing , those exact same people, self proclaimed amplifier aficionado's , tell me the Steel sounds awesome thru the Twin. Of course it does ! Because it's not about volume but it can be about power , and IRON.
It always gets back to bringing the right gear to the gig.
Back to the original question, can a DR handle a 60 x 40 room with maybe 60 people ? The answer is "maybe" but for certain the other amps mentioned can ! Try the DR and see if you like the way it performs. Then you can tell us ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 29 Mar 2016 6:13 am
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| Tony, very insightful. I went to a John Mayall concert Sunday night and the lead guitar player used The Twin red knob amp that some people frown on. His clean sound was smooth and pristine and he kicked the front end with a tube screamer for some grit. I was sitting stage right to the amp so I was hearing what the amp produced. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 29 Mar 2016 7:41 am
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Len , good observation, many times when we go to shows, the first 10 or 12 rows only hears what is coming off the stage not whats coming out of the mains.
Not long ago I was at a downtown Charlotte summer concert, it was Sister Hazel, the guitar player was excellent but we were up front and could barely hear him thru his very small mic'd amp. We could really only hear stage levels which were not adequate for the large stage venue.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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