Due you tune by ear???

Ed Naylor · From: portsmouth.ohio usa, R.I.P.

With all the fancy tuners and modern gimmicks, I wonder how many still rely on their "EAR" to tune their Steel. I can see using the 440 E to start but is it needed to do the rest of the tuning??Ed Naylor Steel Guitar Works.

Tim Bridges · From: Hoover, Alabama, USA

Ed,

Like you suggest, I start out with a tuner. Once I tune my E's on the E9th, I temper the guitar by ear. I have tried tuning straight up and with a cents meter. I still find that I need to tweak it a bit. Keep in mind, I may be tone deaf, but I still have to listen to it. Honestly, I seldom get complaints from the band because I'm out of tune. I might not play in tune, but that's a different subject; I try. If I'm out of tune, I know it and so does everybody else.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Have always tuned by ear! Never owned a new fangled electronic tuner. Was pleased to learn years ago that Jerry Byrd and Chet Atkins both tuned "be ear". That was good enough for me.

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

I rely on finding 440 "E" with a tuner, (or from a chord by the guitar player or a piano), but everything else tuned by ear.

www.genejones.com

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

If you are a professional steel guitar player playing clubs, medium, and large venues chances are that more than half the time you are setting up while loud music is blaring over a P.A. system either for the idiot line dancers or the crowd in general. There is no way that you can tune by ear. Also, if everybody in the band tuned by ear chances are that at least one person if not more would be out of tune with everyone else, people's hearing being different. Also, there is no way that the instruments including steel on stage are going to stay in tune with stage lights and doors opening and closing in the middle of winter, air conditioning in the summer and so on. Ain't gonna happen. If you start turning tuning pegs on your instrument in the middle of a set without a solid reference you have no idea or not whether you are in tune with everyone else. We coordinate our in line tuners once a month between everyone in the band to make sure that they are calibrated the same. There is NO audible tuning alowed on stage once the set starts. There is also a fifteen second maximum rule for songs to start once the last one is finished. That leaves out any audble tuning on stage. Yes, I could tune by ear if I had to, and I think that it should be mandatory to learn, but everyone in my band is quite conscious of when any string on their instrument is out of tune and has the convenience of silent in line tuning to adjust their instrument.

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 13 November 2004 at 10:33 AM.]

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 13 November 2004 at 10:34 AM.]

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

Thank you Kevin for pointing out that I have been "out of tune" for 50 years....for long before there was an electronic tuner to rely upon.

Where did the time go that musicians tuned to each other, rather than an electronic tuner?

www.genejones.com

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I put new strings on my front neck the other night and tuned it up with the tuner, using my normal "compromised" temperament (don't ask!). I was practicing in the phones, with a rock distortion patch, and the A+F position sounded out. So I returned the A pedal and F lever by ear. Mmmmm... nice, smooth major chords!

Next day, I tune up again with the tuner, playing in the speaker this time. A+F is all out of wack again. I look at it with the tuner, and both A and F are way flat of where I usually tune them. I tune them back to the compromised temperament. Sounds fine. I went to the gig (a concert to a packed house) and didn't touch the pedal tuning there. Went over well - even got applause on a few solos!

The moral of the story is this: once you decide on a tuning method, you have to tune everything to that method. You can't have some things tempered and other things beatless. It just doesn't work. Something will sound wrong.

I tune my lap steel by ear sometimes, and by the tuner when I'm in a noisy environment. Pedal steel doen't allow that luxury, because you'd have to retune all of the pedals. If you tune by ear at home, you pretty much have to tune by ear all of the time. Either that or carry around a really accurate chart made from your most recent "ear" tuning session.

I love just intonation, but I'm too lazy to actually use it!

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Like I said, Les, it's a fine art.

Seriously, folks, I don't drink anymore for health reasons, and I haven't been playing in bars much in recent years. I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea. But it's absolutely true that I learned how to play steel in a drunken stupor. I'm lucky to be alive today. God bless.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

Bob Wood · From: Madera, California, USA

I also tune all the beats out by ear, but I tune my E's to 442. When I do this, I sound almost perfectly in-tune with the rest of the band including pianos. The guitars always tune to 440 though!

Makes me mad that they can tune all their strings straight-up, and they'll be perfectly in tune!

LOL!

Bob

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

The days seem to be gone when musicians tuned to each other.I posted this comment some time back but will repeat.Back when electronic tuners came out the best discription i have ever read was the tuner was to quickly retune to a tuning you decided on your own sounded in tune to you.In other words,tune the E or an A to 440 then tune the rest by ear.Then see what yo came up with on the tuner,write it down until you remember it.Then you can quickly retune any where.A place can be quite as a funeral home and soon as you start to tune some one will slug the juke box or the drummer will start practicing,etc.Does this sound familiar to any one.lol.And i read on another thread about perfect pitch.Believe me it ain't what its cracked up to be.I have discussed this with many other musicians i worked with over the years and takes time to learn to live with it.Many played who had perfect pitch ear and didn't know it.All you knew was nothing ever really sounded in tune which it isn't really as no instrument can be tuned to perfect pitch in all keys except one and i forget what it is.Some kind of horn as i recall. If you have a good ear thats great but perfect pitch can be a drag.Tracy

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I knew that this was going to draw heat but lets go. Gene, I never impied that you were out of tune by tuning by ear, only that I thought that there was a better way. 90% + of road steelers today tune with an in line tuner, most have a rack. We opened for a dozen major acts this year. ALL of the steel players used in line tuners as well as the rest of the musicians. I'm not denying that good musicians can tune by ear and tune to each other, but instruments don't stay in tune. I find that the older steel players are very good at tuning by ear because thats how they did it always.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Gene.....I'm WITH YOU! I've NEVER encountered the TUNING nightmares that continue to be described here on the Forum. So many conflicting methods for "getting in tune".
I take my Emmons set-up from home to gig and after about ten minutes of warming it up on stage while I"m chatting off in a corner, I find that olde Emmons to be largely RIGHT ON. I seldom if ever, find the pedals to be out of tune or the knee levers or whatever; that is, unless I've inadvertantly bumped something during "the move".
Now, I'm not a perfect tuner nor do I have the absolute best in equipment, but if I had the tuning problems so many of these fellows describe and if I couldn't tune without some kind of mechanical wizard at my becon call, I think I'd have given up years ago. "Give me an "E"........has always worked for me. And tuning from the TOP....DOWN, has always insured that it would work EVERYTIME!
Some of these fellows must have been playing in environments that you Gene, and I, Garland Nash, C.C. Johnson and others have never known to exist. Whew! Weren't we LUCKY! So happy those television studios were so accurately "temperature controlled".
AND, what kind of shoddy equipment are they using to have to constantly re-tune in the middle of various tunes; at the end of tunes, etc., etc. They should've purchased an EMMONS in the first place and given up long ago on all these mental gymnastics, eh?

[This message was edited by Ray Montee on 13 November 2004 at 01:46 PM.]

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

Kevin my friend, I agree with you that in an environment such as you describe, a tuner is invaluable....at least the guitar can be tuned "straight up" 440 which may be closer to being in tune than trying to hear it over the noise!

Just be patient with some of us "over the hill" players who were around before many of these items like tuners were invented.

www.genejones.com

Nicholas Dedring · From: Beacon, New York, USA

While I can't claim to know what works for anyone else, I have to agree with what Kevin and some other folks are saying above...

Tuning by ear is great, but there are times where it's a luxury circumstances don't allow you...

Having to set up and tune in the dark by the sound booth with no power and no amp with a previous act playing in a club, and then having three minutes to get everything on stage and then waiting for the sound person to set you up (for instance) doesn't allow any real time to tune... and/or a jukebox playing doesn't allow you to hear yourself clearly and distinctly enough to do it.

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

You know its funny Gene because you older players are the guys that I revere. When I'm not playing with the younger guys in my band I hang with sixty and seveny year old steel players just to try and learn from their experience. I wish that I was able to pass through your era instead of playing ear splitting country rock like I have to play every weekend. Its very loud.

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Thank God for tuners. Nothing like trying to tune a Strat and Les Paul in the early 60s, to a Farfisa and bass, with no tuners! I would never go back. Now we can all tune our guitars to a little plastic box with little lites, set 'em down, and pick em up and play. Has anyone else ever tuned a note a half step sharp or flat and not know it till the first chord? That's always fun! JP

Franklin · Posted 13 Nov 2004 5:34 pm

Gene,
I'm with you. On sessions and on the Dire Straits tour and with Tillis I tuned by ear after getting the E and C notes from the tuner. Learning to tune over the white noise of the room is great ear training.

Paul

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

If only the room were true white noise!

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Gene-Roy-I have to agree with a lot of what you say. In my case it was like that also.

I tuned my guitar usually at home using my old Conn Strobo tuner and before I got that I used my Guitar pitchpipe, just for the E.

Then tuned by ear as we had done all those early years. The reason why I got the E , was when I got to the job, I gave the tuner to the guitar player and said tune to that E, Then we'll be starting in the right place at least. I always tuned top down too.
I always tuned everything at home , before I left for the job.
When I got on the bandstand, I never tuned a pedal or anything, usually it worked out pretty good.
I also took my guitar without the case all setup ready to go. No waste of time....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Richard Nelson · From: Drogheda, Louth, Ireland

I've playing for 30 years now and I started tuning by ear . I am so glad those days are over . What a waste of time. I know people who have bought steel guit ars and spent about a year or two battling with tuning and finally gave up . What we are trying to do is make music, so lets embrace the technology and move on. Piano players dont tune their pianos , they get people who have trained for a year or so do do it for them , and how many good piano tuners do you know ? Get a system that works for you and stick with it . Most times people think they are out of tune, its their bar hand

Billy Joe Bailey · From: Jackson, Mississippi, USA

Gene and Ray I too amire how you guys were able to tune by ear this has been a great subject.

I'm 60 years old now and I can recall when all the men that would could over to practice in the band that my daddy play in.
There was know such thing as a plastic tuner..Kevin Hatton I really injoyed your input,and the control you have put up with us old seniors ha ha anyway getting back to that plastic tunner the thought come on me.
Daniel 12-4 But thou, o Daniel,shut up the words, and seal the book,even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased BJ

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Franklin · Posted 14 Nov 2004 10:08 am

b0b,

True white noise, or not, I mentioned those gigs because there is never any silence before the show. I learned to focus to the point of mentally blocking out any noise or pitch besides the sound of the steel.

In Vegas with the Statesiders there were always four fiddles, a guitar or two, tuning at the same time behind the curtain with the insistance of the casino that nothing be heard before the show. Yet, we all managed to get in tune without relying on tuners. I believe only Brian Sterling used a tuner back then.

Sometimes before we take the song, seconds away from the red light, the producer asks everybody to check their tuning. They never isolate an individual and slowing down this red light process is not a good thing. With the headphones cranked, the amps are isolated beyond the ear shot, I quickly have to rely on the ability I learned from the road to block out everything beyond my instrument. Blocking out the other instruments through headphones is really the most difficult for me while tuning at the same time without having to reassemble the cue box. My past experiences with Tillis are invaluable here.

The loudest disturbance I ever heard was in Madrid, 80,000 folks in a stadium and I was tuning so soft nobody could hear the instrument but me.

Gene and all of the guys from before the tuner days survived the same way. Every musician could benefit from tuning the way an orchestra tunes while the audience is being seated. They tune by ear. Develop your ears to the point you don't need silence to hear your instruments vibrations.

I'm an advocate for the past ways of both learning to play and tuning by ear. These days everyone wants to find something that makes their searching easier. For all the examples I listed above, I know there are electronic gadgets that help eliminate the problems I have faced and will face over the years. I'm not convinced they would benefit me in the long run, because I believe a musician can lose his/her ability to distinguish pitch without constant training. If that happens, I can't play in tune. No tuner solves that problem.

Tuning by ear helps train my ears on a daily basis.

Paul

[This message was edited by Franklin on 14 November 2004 at 10:16 AM.]

[This message was edited by Franklin on 14 November 2004 at 10:23 AM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Thanks for the expansion, Paul. My point was that real white noise is a lot easier to tune against than the chaos of real gig noise. It's great that you've been able to isolate your own sound against all others. I've never been able to do that. A nearby guitarist or jukebox can throw me way off.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

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