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Topic: Getting don helms e13 tuning on e9th pedal steel ? |
Larry Lenhart
From:
Ponca City, Oklahoma
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Posted 10 Feb 2016 8:57 pm |
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This may seem like a dumb idea and i have not thought it thru entirely. I am wondering if anyone has a pedal change on their e9th pedal tuning that gets them the don helms e 13th tuning. Just looking at it, it seems that the c# on the third string is the problem. Could a guy lower the 2nd string on the e9 from d# to c# and adjust their grips to get close. Anyone tried anything that works for them. (I am looking for something similar to lowering the es to get the c6th sound.)
Thanks for any idas
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Zum Encore, Remington D8 non pedal, Hallmark Mosrite clone, Gretsch 6120 DSW, Gretsch G5210T-P90 Electromatic Jet Two 90,1976 Ibanez L5, Eastman archtop, Taylor Dreadnaught, Telonics pedal, Squire Tele, Squire Strat, Fender Tonemaster, Gold Tone 5 string banjo, Little Wonder tenor banjo, 3 Roland cubes 30s and 80, Carvin combo bass amp
Last edited by Larry Lenhart on 11 Feb 2016 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 11 Feb 2016 1:06 am
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The only important strings of Don's tuning are the top 6. He hardly used the bottom 2 and their only purpose seems to be to make (along with the third from bottom) an A major chord.
His top 6 strings made an E6 which is identical to C6 but 4 semitones higher.
As you say, if you lower your Es to Eb, you get the same relative tuning on strings 4-8 plus string 10. This is B6 so to play along with Don you have to be 5 frets higher than him.
I have been using A6 on lap steel for many years for my attempts at Helms style and found it to work pretty good. This is the same relative tuning as the "other" C6 - the one with a high G (which I find very useful). This is available on exactly the same strings with your A and B pedals down. If you lower your 9th to a C# you get it on strings 4-9.
Of course, an even easier solution would be to use this as an excuse to buy a nice little lap steel 
Actually, I have found that the tone of a pedal steel (at least on mine) is very different from a lap steel and even if not using any pedals, can usually hear the difference immediately. For live work it's a great way to get a flavour of Hank Snr on the pedal steel but in the studio I'd always use a non-pedal instrument if possible for that stuff. |
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Larry Lenhart
From:
Ponca City, Oklahoma
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Posted 11 Feb 2016 8:04 am
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Jeff
Thanks for your response....i have a triple stringmaster that i have the top neck tuned to A6 and i really prerfer it over the c6, which i have with the high g as well...i totally agree with you about the sound of the non pedal....you just dont get that sound with a pedal steel...thanks for he information...i was just trying to get one instrument to do all in a live setting...i love the sound of the old non pedal steel ! But i like the sound of my zum stage one for pedal steel as well
Thanks again !
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Zum Encore, Remington D8 non pedal, Hallmark Mosrite clone, Gretsch 6120 DSW, Gretsch G5210T-P90 Electromatic Jet Two 90,1976 Ibanez L5, Eastman archtop, Taylor Dreadnaught, Telonics pedal, Squire Tele, Squire Strat, Fender Tonemaster, Gold Tone 5 string banjo, Little Wonder tenor banjo, 3 Roland cubes 30s and 80, Carvin combo bass amp
Last edited by Larry Lenhart on 11 Feb 2016 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2016 9:17 am
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Don Helms very rarely played the B and C# strings together. You can get 95% of his style by silently using the A pedal between notes.
If you need to play a full E6, you can always lower your 2nd string to C#. It's awkward at first, but once you master the fingering it sounds exactly the same.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 11 Feb 2016 11:36 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| Don Helms very rarely played the B and C# strings together. You can get 95% of his style by silently using the A pedal between notes. |
Sorry but I have to disagree with you there b0b.
To my ear, that interval of a single tone is vital to the Don Helms sound and just as important as, for example, the 7th in Mooney's playing.
When I was trying to figure out the sound I was hearing on those Hank records when I was a (relatively) young lad, I could hear the main note and a harmony note but there was some elusive close harmony in there that I couldn't quite get until someone showed me the A6 tuning with the E-F# interval. You can't really hear it as a separate note but it makes such a difference to the texture.
You can play his licks without that interval but when you add it, it is like the beginning of the Wizard Of Oz when it goes from monochrome to colour.
Try the intro to "Walking After Midnight" without using that interval and it doesn't sound right. I know it's not Hank but it is Don and typical of the sort of stuff he played. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2016 8:26 pm
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I usually play "Walkin' After Midnight" on C6th, or E9th with the E lower lever.
In Don Helms' tab book of Hank Williams songs, there is not a single instance where he plays those two strings together. Some of Hank's songs were played by Jerry Byrd in the C6th tuning, including "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" and "Settin' the Woods On Fire". To approximate those, you need to use the E lever.
When I'm playing Hank Williams' songs on E9th, I alternate between the E position (with A pedal) and the B6th position (with E lever). It's authentic enough that the audience recognizes the style. Listen to Lloyd Green on Mo Bandy's "Hank Williams, You Wrote My Life" for a great example of Don Helms' style on E9th.
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