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Topic: Fessenden SD 10 setup help |
Eric Haugen
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2016 2:40 pm |
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Hey guys I've got a lovely Fessenden SD 10 3X5 that could use some love.
What are some of the standard things you recommend to keep it playing smooth?
Specifically, the A pedal feels a bit tight and scratchy.
In general, it feels tight and stiff compared to my GFI ultra that I stupidly sold.
Thanks for your help!
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 25 Jan 2016 2:49 pm
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| One of the most common issues is winter body contraction resulting in the cross shafts getting bound up. The bushing in the rear apron would need to get pushed outward to gain a little bit of side to side slack. |
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Eric Haugen
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2016 3:20 pm
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| Jon Light wrote: |
| One of the most common issues is winter body contraction resulting in the cross shafts getting bound up. The bushing in the rear apron would need to get pushed outward to gain a little bit of side to side slack. |
Thanks for your prompt reply!
I'm not mechanically illiterate, but could you explain where the bushing in the rear apron is?
thanks! |
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Gino Cecchetto
From:
California, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2016 3:30 pm
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Tom Bradshaw just spent 4 hours with me on Saturday giving my Remington SD12 some love, and showing me how to do it in the future. The Remington appears to be built from Fessenden parts and looks to be quite similar to them. My guitar was, like yours, tight and stiff. This was from the rods being set in the lowest position in the bell cranks (lowest meaning closest to the floor when the guitar is setup. This makes the pedal/lever throw shorter and stiffer. Tom moved the rods up as high as possible and would only move them down a notch when it was required for timing purposes and such. The travel on the pedals/levers is longer now (which I prefer for putting feeling into the changes), but light and buttery smooth.
I would recommend having a look at how your Fessy is setup, I'm guessing your problem is similar to mine. Relative to the scratchy feeling in the A pedal, have you looked to see if any of the bell cranks or rods are interfering with any other? Mine had one area that had a lot of bell cranks all in tight proximity that could have easily created that type of feeling if something loosened up and moved around.
Full disclosure, I'm new to PSG for the second time, so I'm no pro, but I am very mechanically inclined, and while these guitars are daunting to look at from the bottom side, it isn't rocket science. If you have a good tech near you, I would highly recommend taking it in to him and seeing if he'll let look over his shoulder.
Last edited by Gino Cecchetto on 25 Jan 2016 3:34 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Eric Haugen
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2016 5:17 am
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Thanks for the info!
My rods are at the second to highest position so I think I'll leave them alone.
I will poke around the apron to see if anything's binding, though. |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 26 Jan 2016 7:43 am
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I know I'm an 'over oiler' by nature but it may just need some Eric.
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
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Gino Cecchetto
From:
California, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2016 7:55 am
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| Eric Haugen wrote: |
Thanks for the info!
My rods are at the second to highest position so I think I'll leave them alone.
I will poke around the apron to see if anything's binding, though. |
Seems odd, if the guitar is stiff across the board and not just on the A pedal you mention feels funky. Are the springs at the changer overly tight? |
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Gino Cecchetto
From:
California, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2016 8:00 am
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| Another thought, since you have a guitar made by a company that is still in business, you could give them a call. No one knows better how your guitar should be setup. I would bet they can help you hone in on the problem. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2016 2:37 pm
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I've owned a fessy for quite a while. Great guitar.
Eric, About which bell crank hole to put a rod in:
My mechanical sense tells me just the opposite from the comments above. That is, the closer the rods are to the floor the longer the travel is needed to get to the equivalent pitch which makes the pedal action easier. This goes for any all pull guitar. Great guitar.
It's just the opposite at the changer end. That is, the closer the hole is to the floor of the guitar the rod is anchored in, the shorter the travel required which makes the action harder.
Since these two oppose each other, if the rods are stacked horizontally, evenly, the mechanical advantage is the same for all changes on the same string to a degree. One can fool with it by not using equivalent positions at changer and bell crank ends. Typically, if you don't use the same order hole at both ends the rod will be kinked so it still lies horizontall, not on a slant. It's an ingenioous design really.
If the guitar has been played alot, might I suggest a thorough cleaning of the changer. Last night I finished dissasembling/cleaning/reassembling my Fessey - plays real nice now. My U12 with forty eight rods took a total of eight hours. PM me for directions if you like rather than boring everyone here.
I tell you what, the bottom of my cleaning bucket had a slurry of 1/8" deep aluminum oily guck that came out of my twelve year old changer.
Like most all pull guitars a hard metal tab on the scissor rubs against a soft aluminum finger every tiem you press a pedal - generates aluminum flakes. |
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Gino Cecchetto
From:
California, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2016 10:39 pm
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| Jim Pitman wrote: |
I've owned a fessy for quite a while. Great guitar.
Eric, About which bell crank hole to put a rod in:
My mechanical sense tells me just the opposite from the comments above. That is, the closer the rods are to the floor the longer the travel is needed to get to the equivalent pitch which makes the pedal action easier. This goes for any all pull guitar. Great guitar.
It's just the opposite at the changer end. That is, the closer the hole is to the floor of the guitar the rod is anchored in, the shorter the travel required which makes the action harder.
Since these two oppose each other, if the rods are stacked horizontally, evenly, the mechanical advantage is the same for all changes on the same string to a degree. One can fool with it by not using equivalent positions at changer and bell crank ends. Typically, if you don't use the same order hole at both ends the rod will be kinked so it still lies horizontall, not on a slant. It's an ingenioous design really.
If the guitar has been played alot, might I suggest a thorough cleaning of the changer. Last night I finished dissasembling/cleaning/reassembling my Fessey - plays real nice now. My U12 with forty eight rods took a total of eight hours. PM me for directions if you like rather than boring everyone here.
I tell you what, the bottom of my cleaning bucket had a slurry of 1/8" deep aluminum oily guck that came out of my twelve year old changer.
Like most all pull guitars a hard metal tab on the scissor rubs against a soft aluminum finger every tiem you press a pedal - generates aluminum flakes. |
Respectfully, ahh, no. The closer the rod is to the center of rotation of the cross shaft, the smaller the radius the rod/bell crank will travel through. This means you have more mechanical advantage, but less travel of the rod. To move the rod an equivalent distance takes more travel of the levers/pedals than it will if the rod is moved further from the center of rotation of the shaft. It's a simple lever. |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2016 3:20 am
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 27 Jan 2016 4:26 am
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| Jim Pitman wrote: |
| My mechanical sense tells me just the opposite from the comments above. |
I know what you mean. It seems counter-intuitive when the guitar is upside down.
I used to have to re-figure it out each time I turned it over because it's not.
So I'd get on the floor and do it upside down for that reason. You get a headache either way. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2016 6:00 am
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I think we are just disagreeing about terms. My comments are as if you have guitar upside down looking at the greasy side.
Bell crank - Puller mounted on cross axel
Changer - thing at the end of the guitar the ball end of the strings mount to and associated scissor mechanisms.
Closer to the floor - means closer to the center of rotation.
Good diargram Dan Bellar - McKenna.
Sorry for the confusion. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2016 6:02 am
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Oh I see Gino.
When you said floor you literraly meant the floor you are standing on.
I interpretted: floor of the pedal steel when in the service position - upside down.
My apologies. You are correct then. |
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Gino Cecchetto
From:
California, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2016 7:30 am
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| Jim Pitman wrote: |
Oh I see Gino.
When you said floor you literraly meant the floor you are standing on.
I interpretted: floor of the pedal steel when in the service position - upside down.
My apologies. You are correct then. |
No worries, I'm a noob, again, so I'm not sure what the common protocol is for how these things are described. That's why I said, closer to the floor with the guitar setup. I guess the smart thing to have done would have been to just refer to the location of the rod in the bell crank relative to it's proximity to the cross shaft. |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2016 8:04 am
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| I keep a copy of that diagram next to my steel so I don;t screw things up when I get underneath. It's from the old Carter Website, which lives on as https://www.steelguitar.com |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2016 4:27 pm
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All this talk about how you service a pedal steel got me laughing.
The image of someone using a mechanic's creeper for example to service a PSG from the bottom up, you know, the "69" position, ie PSG on top, you on the bottom.
I assure you, I have never dipped my tongue into the guts of a changer nor has any appendage of mine wound up tangled in the A pedal axel.!  |
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Gino Cecchetto
From:
California, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2016 4:46 pm
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| Well...... You new a bunch of guys talking about something this mechanical, yet still so finicky and moody, had to go there sooner or later. |
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