Problem w/ changing S10 from E9 to C6?

Peter Goeden · From: Aspen Hill, Maryland, USA

I'm a beginner with very little understanding of psg mechanics. Is switching my S10 from E9 to C6 a problem or undesirable for any reason?

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

If you understand the mechanics -- how to shorten or lengthen throw; synchronize changes; cut rods to the proper length; add pedals; add levers, etc. -- you'll just need some extra pedal assemblies. That's assuming that the guitar is drilled for more than three pedals. The big difference is that the standard C6 setup includes 5 pedals and 1 or 2 levers (4 or 5 are even better) and E9 guitars often only have 3 pedals.

You need to count the number of pulls on your C6 setup and subtract the number of pulls on E9. That is how many new pulls you'll need. Each will require a bellcrank and other hardware (clips or retainers, etc.), depending on the brand.

If you're not planning on doing the work yourself, it could be expensive -- several hundred dollars -- just for PARTS.

Is it undesirable? You will see very few S-10's that are not E9 and that's the tuning most will want, much more than C6, because that's the tuning most folks associate with the pedal steel. Some pros travel with a S-10 for weight issues but 99/100 (or MORE)of them are E9. So resale may be a problem.

BUT . . . if it's what you want, go for it. I love the C6 tuning but many D-10 players just use the back neck as an armrest.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

BIG JOB..... in my opinion. You would also have to add some rods and bellcranks and really need a minimum of 4 pedals. That is why we use double necks or 12 string universals.

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Peter
Selling the S-10 and putting the money towards a D-10 is my recommendation.

Turning the S-10 into a C6 guitar will be expensive and will reduce the number of available purchasers when you decide to sell, and you WILL decide to sell one day, trust me.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

David Doggett · Posted 28 Oct 2004 7:21 am

Well it all depends on the kind of S10 you have, and how mechanically skilled you are. If it is an old Sho-Bud or an Emmons push/pull, I'd say forget it. It would take a newbie weeks of work and many do overs to get it working, and the chances of getting it optimally adjusted for ease of playing would be slim to none. If you can look at a C6 neck of the same make, that would be tremendously helpful, even close up photos from someone here on the Forum would be an enormous help. Also, it would be a huge help to have someone here with the same make describe things like how the pull rods are stacked and which slot in the bell crank to attach the pull rod, etc. Without that, you're going to be reinventing the wheel, without even knowing what the finished product should be like.

There is also the issue of parts. You are goint to need two or three new pedals, pedal rods, and cross rods, and lots of new bell cranks and pull rods of proper lengths. Also all the knee levers will have to be changed over to new pulls.

All that being said, if you have a newer all-pull, such as a Carter, Zum, Fessenden, GFI, Mullen, etc., you can easily obtain all the parts you need from the manufacturer, who will help you figure out what you need and may give you some useful instructions on how to proceed. There are certain general principles that will help you get it right. You start rodding the raises nearest the changer first, moving one by one to the raises farthest from the changer. Then you start with the nearest lowers, and work your way to the farthest. You choose slots in the bell cranks that will most closely pull all the pulls on that crank in synchrony, starting near the same time, and ending near the same time. You also have to get the feel of the action right for you. Bell crank slots nearest the cross rod make the action longer and easier, further from the cross rod make the action quicker and harder. If you already have four or five knee levers, their postions may already be okay for you, but you will have to completely re-rod them.

I guess the bottom line is, it can be done, but it is not a job I would want to wish on a beginner. Strictly mechanically, if all the parts are available, any S10 can be set up either E9 or C6, and there is nothing undesirable about that, as long as C6 is all you will ever want to play on it.

Larry is right about the resale, the market for an S10 C6 would be much smaller than for E9. However, there always seem to be a lot of S10 E9 owners who would like to get a cheap used S10 C6 to try before they make the leap to a D10. My feeling is that you could easily sell it here on the Forum, but you might not get all your money back on the new parts you have to put in it.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 28 October 2004 at 08:28 AM.]

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

I miss Carl D. He'd usually post a nice long dissertation too..

I've thought about doing this to one of my Dekley S-10's , but have delayed due to the perplexing issue of pedal and KL placement. Shouldn't it duplicate a D10's C6th layout so that when one finally gets a D-10 they haven't developed a familiarity with an incorrect pedal scheme that has to then be unlearned?

[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 28 October 2004 at 09:26 AM.]

David Doggett · Posted 28 Oct 2004 12:27 pm

Ray, I'd think you'd want the order of pedals and knees to be just like on a D10 C6. But I don't know that they would need to be over in the center of the guitar. Seems like you could keep the pedals and left knees all the way over on the left, like on E9. I think if you ever switched to a D10 with a middle C6 left knee cluster over the C6 pedals, that leg placement adjustment would be fairly easy. The main thing is to have everything in the same order. Um...but wait a minute, some guys take their right foot off the volume pedal and use it on pedals 7 and 8. For that you might want all the pedals shifted over to the right, just like on standard C6.

Peter Goeden · From: Aspen Hill, Maryland, USA

I didn't realize the extent of mechanical differences. I guess a s12 universal might be the solution (avoiding the weight of a D10 is my objective). Thanks for the thoughtful answers All.

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