| Author |
Topic: Acoustic conversion & Resophonic strings |
Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
|
Posted 23 Dec 2015 8:30 am |
|
Hi, I have converted an old "f-hole" acoustic to play lap-style, using the 'dobro' GBDGBD tuning. Nothing fancy, just a string-raiser at the nut; my aim is to start learning bluegrass-style dobro and maybe buy the real thing later.
The strings currently on it are a bit light on top so I was going to replace them with John Pearse resophonic strings, 16-56 and then noticed that the bass side is quite heavy compared to normal guitar sets and wondered if it's necessary if I am not using a real resophonic and if I can get away with using normal strings with a heavier top.
Presumably those strings work well tonally with a resonator but is there any other advantage when using them with a non-resonator?
Happy holidays to you all! \ paul
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
|
|
 |
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 23 Dec 2015 8:44 am
|
|
.056 tuned up to G on a guitar might be a little tight, but it should be ok.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Michael Maddex
From:
Northern New Mexico, USA
|
Posted 23 Dec 2015 10:06 am
|
|
I would start with a standard set. Maybe something a little heavier on the first string. Then, after playing awhile, if a string feels a little floppy, I would consider something heavier there. YMMV. Have fun with your new music!
_________________
"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." -- Arthur C. Clarke |
|
|
|
Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
|
|
|
|
John Sluszny
From:
Brussels, Belgium
|
Posted 23 Dec 2015 11:19 am
|
|
| Be careful ! |
|
|
|
Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
|
Posted 23 Dec 2015 11:24 am
|
|
There are no shortage of stories of "roundneck" guitars set up with nut risers and played in the classic GBDGBD tuning with no ill effects, but it's not just about "blowing up" the bridge were it the typical style mounted on the soundboard of a flattops opposed to a trapeze tailpiece, it is sometimes more about the neck being ruined from the excess tension, mainly from the .056w gauge 6th string that comes with the typical dobro string set.
I have never come across anything that explains much in the way of rhyme or reason to this - it seems to be more along the lines of "you pay your money and you take your chances."
I think I'd go lighter on most of the strings, particularly the 6th. The .016 on the 1st string is fine, if you go any lighter it can sound wimpy.
_________________
Mark |
|
|
|
Keith Glendinning
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 23 Dec 2015 11:37 am
|
|
Hi Paul,
I tried a similar experiment. I took an old, very cheap, ($60 Lindo) electro/acoustic guitar and replaced the saddle with a 1/2" buffalo bone saddle and also fitted a 1/2" buffalo bone nut then tuned it to open D using standard gauge strings. The resultant raised action obviously increased the volume and the original pezio pickup and equaliser give it a good electro/acoustic sound, nothing like a Dobro, but pleasing to the ear. Unfortunately I can't play it well as I haven't done anything in open tuning yet. But from what I hear it's worth exploring in the near future. |
|
|
|
David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
|
Posted 23 Dec 2015 12:29 pm
|
|
I presume the guitar in question is an arch-top. Most have camber in the fingerboard and bridge. If so, you will have to replace the saddle with something straight.
_________________
Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
|
|
|
Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
|
Posted 23 Dec 2015 1:16 pm
|
|
Thanks to all responders, this is good information.
The guitar in question is an old but inexpenisve German Hopf 'archtop', actually pressed not carved. Looks lovely but it was built without a truss-rod and the neck has become uneven. I've had the guitar looked at by a very experienced and reliable repair guy and he cannot correct this without major surgery.
Also, despite its good looks, it sounds quite harsh when strummed, no matter what I string it with. So I am prepared to take a risk on the neck.
@Mark, I thought that most tension issues arose by increasing the gauge on the upper strings! I was told that the bottom strings tend not to have as much pull. But I take your advice in earnest and will probably buy stock strings rather than the resonator set with the .056 bass E.
@ Dave, yes there is a camber in both neck and bridge and I notice this more when playing higher on the fretboard. Lower down, the raised nut compensates well enough to let me explore the 'dobro' style.
Thanks again. This forum always delivers helpful advice!
\paul
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
|
|
|
Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
|
Posted 23 Dec 2015 2:19 pm
|
|
Paul, maybe you will have to figure out how to do a metric conversion - but here is a chart showing the tension for one of the string sets offered by Paul Beard when tuned to GBDGBD:
| Quote: |
1st - D - .017 = 35.57 lbs
2nd - B - .019 = 32.67 lbs
3rd - G - .028w = 41.47 lbs
4th - D - .036w = 36.67 lbs
5th - B - .045w = 38.61 lbs
6th - G - .056w = 40.30 lbs |
You can see that in actual tension measured in pounds, the 3rd string is the highest, and the 6th is slightly behind, but it is also obviously much heavier at .056 compared to .028.
You could also play low bass Open G, DGDGBD for lap style. Shouldn't be a problem as many bottleneck style players of roundneck guitars use these heavier gauges to get the best tone for slide work, though I think the majority of bottleneck slide players might not use anything heavier than .016 for the 1st string.
_________________
Mark |
|
|
|
Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
|
Posted 23 Dec 2015 6:41 pm
|
|
rather than stress it out in a G tuning. Just transpose it down so it remains in E.
Too much tension WILL cause damage.
So use E,G#,B, E, G#, B
its the same tuning but in E. Problem solved. 
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
|
|
|
Andy Alford
|
Posted 23 Dec 2015 7:12 pm Strings
|
|
| Without handling your guitar it is hard to say for sure.You may want to buy individual strings and build a set for it. There is risk involved because it does not have a square neck and the bridge may pull up from the guitar top.The guitar was not made to play Hawaiian style. Let us know how it works out. |
|
|
|
Brian Evans
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
|
Posted 26 Dec 2015 5:39 am
|
|
The issue is indeed string tension, and collapsing the body of an old archtop. The dobro set has a tension of 225 lbs in high G tuning, a typical set of mediums on an archtop in standard E tuning will be between 120 lbs (.011 - .050) and say 150 lbs for heavier strings. so you can see that the tension is significantly different. Archtops are built as light as possible to sustain the load between the neck block and tail block yet still deliver a nice sound, obviously the arch is designed to support the down load at the bridge. That down load will also be far greater, not only due to the increased total tension of the strings but also an increase in break angle if you increase the bridge height for slide playing. Finally, consider scale length. The dobro set tension is for a 25" scale, and lots of those old German archtops have a 25.5" or longer scale.
The issue with tuning down is that a large part of developing tone and feel on a dobro is the tension of the strings pressing against the steel. There is a big reason why the strings are so stiff, going to lighter gauges or tuning down (which amounts to the same thing) makes the strings floppy and unresponsive. |
|
|
|
Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
|
Posted 27 Dec 2015 9:47 am
|
|
Hi, thanks again. I am taking this advice very seriously! I have left the standard guitar strings on (I cannot recall the gauges but top 3 are unwound) and just changed the tuning. So far so good! The scale length is 25 inches. The top B & D feel a a bit light and I can also hear that the intonation is a little out on the lower frets, something noticeable when playing closed and open strings together which is a feature of this style of playing. But I'm taking into account that I'm still finding my way with technique ... it's not exactly copy and paste from lap-steel!
I've uploaded a picture of the guitar just so you might appreciate my fondness of this instrument.
\paul
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
|
|
|
Michael Maddex
From:
Northern New Mexico, USA
|
Posted 27 Dec 2015 11:07 am
|
|
Very cool looking guitar!  ...
and glad to hear that you are making progress. I have one small suggestion. Because a lap guitar does not require a compensated saddle, if your bridge is not fixed, you might try aligning the saddle perpendicular to the strings.
Enjoy!
_________________
"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." -- Arthur C. Clarke |
|
|
|
