Which PP models are the most desirable?

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

I have some offers for trading my Zum D-10 for an Emmons PP but I would like to know more about them. Which models have that Emmons tone to the bone sound or does that simply vary from guitar to guitar. Any models or years of manufacture to stay away from? If I make a trade, I plan on it being the last guitar I will ever own, so I don't want to make a big mistake and get the wrong model or year. Also, what's the tone difference between a wood neck and metal neck? My common sense tells me that a wood neck would be more mellow. Am I right?

My first Emmons was a 1968 D-10 and had tone out the ying yang. My 2nd Emmons was a 12 string extended E-9th and the tone was OK, but not as good as the D-10. At the time I owned these guitars, I didn't even know that they came in cut tail, wrap around, or bolt on, so I don't know what models I had.

Any help or links that anybody can give on this subject would really be appreciated.

thanks,

George

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

George , a very subjective question !

Which ones are better? who can say. Which ones sound better ? who knows.

Many will claim that the 60's early built guitars are the cream of the crop, maybe they are.

A D10 should have a bit more growl than a S12 as there is more WOOD. But, the S12's sound great to, so go figure.As do the S10's...

I have an 81 D10, with single coils, cut tail, ( don't think it matters) to me it is the same as any other PP I have ever heard or played . It's totally different than my D10 Legrande II or the Sho Buds.

My take, just grab a PP and go for it. If you are going to spend time trying to find the one which has the best overall tone you'll probably miss it.

It's not like the Sho Bud world where the early guitars were built on totally different designs.The later guitars do not sound like the early guitars. Even the decade of the 70's produced at least 3 unique versions of Sho Bud changers and pull systems. The PP's didn't go thru that era of PP design change.
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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
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jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I prefer metal neck 60's PPs. but .... Guys like Mike Johnson are into late model PPs from the 80's. I would say the quality of an Emmons is more about condition than vintage. All Emmons PPs have the "sound". Since you had a 68 you already know all about it.

If you do a trade for your zum make sure the steel is in good condition and be ready to spend a bit of money having the PP set up just the way you like it.
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Bob

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

Thanks Tony and Bob. I do have a question concerning wood vs. metal necks and lacquered vs. mica. Since the two PP's that I owned in the past were both black mica and metal necks, my gut tell's me to stick with that combo. A lacquered guitar with wood necks scares me. I am sure they sound great but I am guessing they sound different. My Zum sounds great, but it sounds different than the two Emmons that I have had.

Thanks,

George

George Seymour · From: Notown, Vermont, USA

George
I'd definitely give Dana Flood a call up in Bangor ME.
He might offer some options to which you desire.
Happy hunting!
George
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chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

that zum is possibly one of the best steels you can get.
i think if there is any way to hang onto the it awhile longer, you should. you might regret selling it.
if you had both at the same time, you could really compare better. you can always sell one later.
i've got both and wouldn't want to give up either.

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

Chris, I know. I am thinking about just keeping it unless something really shows up that gets my attention. I am afraid I will regret trading it. I wish I had the money to try both, and keep the one I liked best. I may have a trade possibily with a local guy so I can go to his place and see and play it so that I am not going into the dark without a flashlight.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

George,
I would go with my gut on that and stick with the metal neck and mica PP's.
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Bob

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I have both: a lacquer/ woodneck & a mica/alum neck. They both have great p/p sound. The non-mica guitar is definitely more resonant acoustically and sounds a bit fuller when amplified. They will sound similar with minimal amp EQ tweaking on E9th, but the wood guitar sounds better overall on C6th.

Hamilton Barnard · From: Oro Valley, Arizona (deceased)

George, what year is your Zum?

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

The Zum is a 1982 model.

Mike Archer · From: church hill tn

ive had 4 pps over the last 30 years

they all had that sound to me

as a side note I also like the SKH legrandes...

good luck mike
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Drew Pierce · From: Arkansas, USA

The wrap arounds are probably the most desirable if price and time on market are the indicators. Whether that's because of their rarity or because of their tone is another issue. Some swear by the bolt-ons, while others will say stay away from them. Although the bolt-ons also seem to be fairly desirable in terms of prices and quick sales. Still others will argue that the cut-tail fatbacks ('70-'74) are the cat's meow. I have an S10 bolt-on and a D10 fatback and the difference in tone between the two can be minimized with amp EQ tweaks. Although on balance, the D10 has the tone advantage overall.

I can't offer a valid opinion on metal/mica vs. wood/lacquer as I've never owned the latter. But I can say I've heard some killer wood/lacquer PPs, which were all bolt-ons. (Why the bolt-on changers remained past the late '60s on these models is a question I can't answer.)

I agree with Chris Ivey about hanging on to the Zum. They are great guitars by any measure and are like money in the bank. Their value will not go down as long as people are still playing pedal steels.
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Drew Pierce
Emmons D10 Fatback, S10 bolt-on, Zum D10, Evans RE500, Hilton volume and delay pedals.

Tom Quinn · Posted 22 Dec 2015 7:56 pm

In my experience, '71 was a terrific year, especially for the flat-black D-10 guitars...
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I need an Emmons!

Dyke Corson · From: Fairmount, IL USA

I've owned a lot of PPs guitars over the years, but my go to D-10 is a early 80s model that I got from Mike Cass. I've never owned a wrap-around, but have a couple bolt ons which do sound great, and a cut tail 2 numbers away from the Blade, but I always go back to this particular early 80s one with the Legrande style pedal rack. Thanks to Mike for a great guitar!!

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

after playing many, many and more many different pedal steel guitars over the last couple of years, it is my belief that there is only 3 different kinds of steel guitars in the world, Emmons, Sho~Bud, and all the rest of them ... any push pull Emmons, or Sho~Bud, if set up correctly , will blow any ZUM out of the water , specially when it comes to the tone... I would never trade a push pull for a ZUM unless there is some cash on the side involved...
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mike nolan · From: Forest Hills, NY USA

I have a Zum and an Emmons PP. Both U-12 guitars. I really like the Zum.... but then I get out the Emmons and there is really no contest as to which would be the keeper if one had to go. The Emmons goes with me to the grave. The 73-74 D-10 PP that I sold this year, was probably the best sounding guitar that I have ever owned.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Pretty funny stuff ! Some I agree with too! Here's my take, again and as usual.

The 81 PP I acquired ( mica with metal) is in a class of its own when it come to overall sound which sparks a different kind of playing. The 75 Sho Bud Pro III that I just sold also had a significant unique tone , totally different than the PP but none the less, outstanding. They should not be compared .

The late 70's Pro I that I have sounds nothing like the 75 Pro III, not even close, but it plays well and fits it's need.

Now for the meat which I will probably be chastised for. I also have a 93/ D10 Legrande II, I like it a ton, it plays exceptionally, it sounds good, a bit bright ( stock single coils) but overall a fine Instrument, but not like the 81 PP. To me it sounds ,plays ,feels like any Zum I have sat behind which has only been a few . Thats not a bad thing. So what I am saying is, don't compare the Zums to a PP, compare them to the Legrandes, II's or III's, not the earlier 4 hole puller guitars which wouldn't be a fair comparison for action and setup.

After NOT being a PP owner for several decades and owning multiple Steels of which I liked them all, none of them had the growl of the PP and, actually, none of them had the growl of the 75 Sho Bud Pro III either ! Both very unique in tone not just to each other but to the other Steels I have owned.

Now if we are talking setup and action alone I suspect the Legrande's and the Zums would be leading the pack along with other modern era Instruments. I am not dissing any other excellent brands. I only mention Zums because they are mentioned above.

63 thru 67 Corvettes are not great driving cars by today's standards but if I owned one I would drive it everyday ! Smile

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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

Pro III Sho ~Buds are my least favorite model, because of metal necks, I find their tone to be too " brassy " and not clean and clear, with powerful bass as some other models, specially LDG's... Legrande II are hit or miss, I played some that were garbage, and I had some that were unbelievable guitars...never owned Legrande III so, can't say anything about those...played gazillion push pulls, and they all had that great Emmons tone, sometimes too bright or harsh for living room picking, but great for the stage...
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

I just like my Emmons with aluminum necks, and my Sho Buds with wooden necks...but thats just my personal preference ... they are still two best guitars ever made...
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

of course, but thats not the point he was making. Many folks say they have a PP with Legrande Pedal racks. Which of course is not correct or accurate, Legrandes have late style PP Pedal racks.

But you already knew this...
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

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