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Topic: What's your favourite E9th pedal or knee lever operation? |
David Hartley
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 1:18 am |
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Ignoring the obvious A, B, C pedals, and E's raise and lowers......
What is the raise or lower do you like using the best, and what pedal or knee lever is it on.
Last edited by David Hartley on 11 Nov 2015 1:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 1:38 am
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Lowering the second string a half tone to D (E9 neck of course). I don't have a half stop on the lever and don't lower the second a full tone. I use this lever all the time. It's on RKL.
That lever also lowers the 9th string a half tone, and the 3rd string on the C6 neck a half tone. Plus I have a compensator on that lever that slightly lowers the first string (E9 again) so the D and F# are in tune to each other (perfect 3rd interval).
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Tim Russell
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 4:50 am
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Favorite's currently; Lowering 2nd string to C#, RKR, go on A pedal at same time, then release both, makes for a nice sound.
And my recent additions to RKL, 1 - F# - G, 2 - Eb - E ,& 6 - G# - F# .
_________________
Sierra Crown D-10 |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 5:09 am
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Versatile turnaround featuring E9th 7th string whole tone raise and 9th string lower and split tuning!
Hear It!
Tab657 in pdf format |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 5:41 am
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6th string lower to F#.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 6:08 am
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| Knee lever - lowering 2 & 10 a full tone. |
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 7:34 am
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On my U-12 Universal, I tune my 2nd string to C# and raise it to D# and 9th string B to D on the LKL. I use it a lot, along with Eb and F levers.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 12:19 pm
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| 6th string lower to F#. |
Ditto. I like the way it resolves, so much so that I've got it on P1. Use it with E->F# lowers on LKL and RKR |
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Joshua Gibson
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 5:27 pm
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Rkr string 1, F# - G #, and RKL string 6, G# - B...some fun unison stuff Ala PF 
_________________
'83 Mullen custom D-10 8x5.
Mesa Lonestar classic 112 custom cab.
Session 400 Ltd, Nashville 1000,
Telonics, Zoom, BJS,
Goldtone BS, LITM, OS Dobros.
Fender, G&L, Gibson, Ibanez guitars. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 7:44 pm
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| Greg Cutshaw wrote: |
Versatile turnaround featuring E9th 7th string whole tone raise and 9th string lower and split tuning!
Hear It!
Tab657 in pdf format |
(As usual). .. fantastic Greg! |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 11 Nov 2015 7:46 pm
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| 3d and 6th string lower to F#, on RKL. |
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David Hartley
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Posted 12 Nov 2015 1:26 am What about?
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| Does anyone raise the 6th from G# to B ? |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 12 Nov 2015 4:43 am
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| Georg Sørtun wrote: |
| 3d and 6th string lower to F#, on RKL. |
Georg, I'd very much like to lower the 3d to F#. I've tried it without success, and I recall b0b saying he'd like to see anyone try. (I have all pull.)
Can you give some details? Feel free to send a PM if it's not on topic, altho I think many might be interested.
Besides, we'd all like to see b0b proven wrong once. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 12 Nov 2015 5:26 am
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| Charlie McDonald wrote: |
Georg, I'd very much like to lower the 3d to F#. I've tried it without success, and I recall b0b saying he'd like to see anyone try. (I have all pull.) |
Charlie, the 3d string lower to F# is the longest throw of all, so it is necessary to optimize balance along the pull-chain to allow the lower-scissor to go all the way without "turning" (getting a raise) via the lower-return spring.
Point by point:
- lowest hole on the changer.
- lowest hole on the bell-crank.
- adjust knee-lever stop to allow for a little longer movement.
- fine-tune lower-return spring for 3d string so it is "just tense enough".
- balance the 6th string lower for the slightly longer pull necessary to lower 3d string all the way.
I have this 3d string lower - with split for G with the B-pedal - on my two Dekley PSGs, and on my GFI Ultra keyless. No problems on any of them - they tune perfectly, but mechanically they are all pretty close to what is possible for a lower. I use .0115 strings for 3d string on all my PSGs, but no problems using the more normal .011 gauge with the lower.
Will add that on my thrusty old Dekley S10 with Extended E tuning, I also lower a one-octave-lower G# string to F# with the same knee lever. To make that low string lower work in synk with lowering of the two regular G# strings, I had to add a gear-down bell-crank. |
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Alexander Rehfeld
From:
Aberdeen, Scotland
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Posted 12 Nov 2015 6:51 am
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Raising my first string from F# to G or G# to play those bluesy Lloyd Green runs from the Little Darlin' years.
_________________
1974 Sho Bud "The Professional"; 2017 Show Pro D 10; BJS Bar "John Hughey"; Goodrich Steel Driver III; Live Steel Strings |
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Tim Herman
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 12 Nov 2015 7:29 am
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| Starting from D7 at the 3rd fret. Strings 5'6'8' with E's lowered and B pedal engaged. Release B pedal and engage Franklin pedal. Then release everything to resolve to G. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 15 Nov 2015 5:59 am
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Georg, in trying to adapt the high G#->F# lower, I noticed that the third return spring has been previously tightened all the way.
It does have a stiffer pull. Is that something that will inhibit the lower? I can swap strings if need be, but from your description,
it doesn't sound like it would be necessary, but I'm not achieving it yet. Thanks in advance for your help. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 15 Nov 2015 6:57 am
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Charlie, if that return-spring is too tense, it will cause the raise-scissor to start raising with the lower-scissor before the lower-scissor gets low enough for an F#. From that point on further lower-pull won't do any good.
That return-spring should be adjusted to be just tense enough to prevent the lower-scissor to move away from the stop-plate when you push the B-pedal for a perfect A note. Then - on most all-pull changers - the lower-scissor should be able to go low enough for an F# without "turning on the spring" (in effect use the tensed-up return-spring as pivot-point) and activate the raise-scissor.
It is a weakness in all all-pull changers that they have the return-spring below the rod-holes - difficult to change that the way these changers are constructed. Because the return-springs are relative short and in that "below the pull" position, they do not allow for much lowering before the return-spring becomes too tense and the "turning on the spring" effect takes place.
There are a couple of ways to get around this limitation, but they both require some form of mechanical add-on or modification to the PSG.
I have achieved well-balanced and stable lowering of 3d string G# to F# on all my PSGs without adding or modifying anything - apart from adjusting the return-spring for lowest possible tension, but there may be some PSGs out there that simply can not accomodate such a long lower of 3d string through careful adjustments only. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 15 Nov 2015 7:19 am
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A very good discussion of the changer, Georg. Now I know what to do with that spring to see if I can accomplish the lower,
what to look for and when to look for it. I'd be curious to know why the spring was tightened; I'll never know and it might not help.
Your last statement may be what prompted b0b to say that it can't be done (on the majority of all-pull guitars, perhaps, due to inherent limitations).
Thank you so much; I understand now. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 15 Nov 2015 7:19 am
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Charlie, let me add that I also use a .022Wound 6th string on my PSGs, that also needs a long pull to lower to F# (along with the 3d string). Some find a wound 6th string difficult to lower that far, but it's no real problem on my Dekleys or my GFI - just takes time to adjust properly.
One advantage with having a wound 6th string, is that it is much easier to time the 3d and 6th string lowers to each others. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 15 Nov 2015 7:28 am
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Yes; I have a plain 6th but will probably go to a wound string when I re-guage, for other reasons; I'll bear in mind what you say.
I have no problem with the middle G# lower as it is; it times well and I don't anticipate any differently. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 15 Nov 2015 7:45 am
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My reason for using a wound 6th is the sound and overall tonal balance. Have used the same string-gauges w/wound 6th for decades.
The mechanical advantage of a wound 6th is just a plus, although a BIG plus |
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Justin Griffith
From:
Taylor, Texas, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2015 7:07 am
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on E-9th, Lower 9 a 1/2 and 10 a whole step.
8,9,10 gives a fat pedals down chord.
I have the 10th lower on the same lever that lowers 2 and 9.
_________________
Emmons/Sho~Bud/Blanton, Fender/Peavey.
Telonics pedal |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2015 7:11 pm
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| Charlie McDonald wrote: |
| Georg Sørtun wrote: |
| 3d and 6th string lower to F#, on RKL. |
Georg, I'd very much like to lower the 3d to F#. I've tried it without success, and I recall b0b saying he'd like to see anyone try. (I have all pull.)
Can you give some details? Feel free to send a PM if it's not on topic, altho I think many might be interested.
Besides, we'd all like to see b0b proven wrong once. |
Charlie.. I used the 3rd string full tone lower for over 30 years.. Not all changers can do it... most cannot.. Old MSA guitars could on a pedal,, So could Carter steels.. Many changers simply don't have enough travel... It usually takes a LOT of pedal or knee lever travel Its easier if you use a bit thicker 3rd string on some guitars.. I have had a steel or two that wouldn't quite make it with an 011, but would do it with an .0115.. I no longer use it as I have the same basic sound by raising my first string to G#,, bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 18 Nov 2015 5:24 am
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Thanks, Bob.
I'm about to order strings with an .0115 third to see if that will reach the 3d str. lower.
The change is getting lower on my priorities, but it's fun experimenting.
As you say, I can get it on the F# string, just not with the 6th str. lower that I have. |
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