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Topic: 6 or 10? |
Michael Edelman
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 1 Nov 2015 8:46 am |
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I know this topic has been covered before, still...
I've been playing guitar, old time banjo, mandolin and other stringed instruments for many years, and lately I've been messing around with a lap steel in C6. I'm thinking I'd like to get something with pedals and a bit more harmonic flexibility. My interest is classic country and 60s folk-rock and country rock a la Byrds.
The two options I've been considering are a Fessenden 6 string, which should be an easy transition, and a Stage One. Part of me thinks the Six Shooter may well occupy me for some time, and be a good introduction, and the other part thinks, if you're going to learn pedal steel, learn pedal steel.
Anyone care to share their experience or advice? Also, can someone comment on the comparative ruggedness of both of these instruments? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 1 Nov 2015 10:09 am
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If you want to play pedal steel, and play the stuff you hear pedal steel play, you'll need the ten. It's POSSIBLE to play a 6-Shooter like a pedal steel, but you have to already think pedal steel, and the 6-Shooter won't help you do that. I've got two videos on my youtube channel of me playing my Zum like a 6-Shooter, you can see at www.youtube.com/steelguitarlane
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 1 Nov 2015 11:55 am
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I think there are 2 ways to look at it. If your primary instrument is guitar and you're looking to add some slides and bends to your repertoire, the 6 string pedal makes a lot of sense. You are already familiar with many of the positions out of the E tuning.
Pedal steel is addictive....and will probably become your priority if you begin learning a 10 string, 3 pedal, 4 knee instrument.
I don't have any experience regarding the quality of either, but Jerry Fessenden's guitars have a very good reputation as do Doug Earnest's Stage 1's.
Apples and oranges IMO. The 6 shooter is a very basic pedal steel, has no knee levers and only 2 pedals raising the 3rd a half tone and the 5 a whole. Both together changing the 1 chord to a 4 from the open tuning. Obviously there are many things you can do with them once you learn where to use those changes.
I think the 6 Shooter is for guitar players looking to get some pedal steel sounds, while the Stage I is an entry level instrument for folks who want to play conventional pedal steel. JMO.
FWIW, I am experimenting with a Cougar 6 string pedal steel with 4 pedals and 4 knees though I'm yet to decide on a definite tuning and set-up. |
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Michael Edelman
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 1 Nov 2015 1:05 pm
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| Great advice from both of you, thanks. I think I'm more of a guitar player looking to get some steel sounds, but I'm still intrigued by the idea of a full steel setup. The difference in price is small enough that I'm leaning towards the full ten strings. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 1 Nov 2015 1:12 pm
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| Michael Edelman already wrote: |
| if you're going to learn pedal steel, learn pedal steel |
| and Lane Gray wrote: |
| It's POSSIBLE to play a 6-Shooter like a pedal steel, but you have to already think pedal steel |
I would add that the 10 includes the 6; you'll soon find some simple sounds that please you, and you can go as far as you like from there.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 1 Nov 2015 1:14 pm
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| I've never played a Stage One, but the reviews around here are fabulous. Good luck with your experience! |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 1 Nov 2015 1:39 pm
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| get an old used single neck 10 string 4 knee lever pro model...msa..sho-bud..dekley..bmi..etc..lots of choices around a grand. they don't have to look new. take a steel player with you to make sure it works. forget anything new and don't listen to anyone else on the forum. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 1 Nov 2015 7:22 pm
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| chris ivey wrote: |
| get an old used single neck 10 string 4 knee lever pro model...msa..sho-bud..dekley..bmi..etc..lots of choices around a grand. they don't have to look new. take a steel player with you to make sure it works. forget anything new and don't listen to anyone else on the forum. |
I hope you meant this in jest. It will be real hard to find any of those guitars you listed, in good working condition, not requiring some work, for $1000. The new, yes I said new, Stage one would be the best choice in my opinion,and would be the direction I would go if I was in his shoes. He can probably get into a stage one a whole lot sooner than waiting for that great working used guitar, for $1000, to come along.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Dana Blodgett
From:
California, USA
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Posted 1 Nov 2015 8:17 pm
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I agree with Richard, good luck finding a "Pro" model for a grand,even if you did it would probably need some adjustments and or parts...just MY opinion!
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Dana Blodgett
From Los Osos,Ca.
'74 ShoBud 6140 3+4, Martins HD28,D-12-28, D-15,'65 Gibson LG-1, '77 Gibson Les Paul special dbl cut p-90's, Les Paul Special p-100's,Les paul Special Hybrid(maple top) hbkr's,'68 Fender Strat reissue, Fender Squire Jazz bass,Epi mandolin,Epi Wilshire '66 reissue, Kamaka Concert uke, 70's Kamaka Soprano Uke, Fender Super amp, Ampeg ba112 bass amp,60's harmony banjo,'00 Gibson SG Supreme |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 2 Nov 2015 7:23 am
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If you wish to be an 'actual' steel guitarist, then I say the minimum necessary is a 10-string E9, with 3 + 3. Anything less than that you will encounter problems learning country hits from the past few decades. A fourth lever is a bonus, but is not really an agreed standard.
I would not entertain the idea of a 6-string pedal steel unless you ONLY ever intend to 'sound like' a steel guitarist for a song or two. This is not meant to be a dig at the builders and designers of these guitars, I'm sure they have their place. I just wouldn't recommend them to a beginner who, for example, has a goal of playing like Lloyd Green.
So, definitely start with a 10-string student model. A new one is ideal, but most used student models built in the last ten years should still be in good shape too. |
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John Sluszny
From:
Brussels, Belgium
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Posted 2 Nov 2015 10:00 am
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| 10 ! |
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James Sission
From:
Sugar Land,Texas USA
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Posted 2 Nov 2015 1:19 pm
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There is a stage one in the classifieds right now. If I needed a starter guitar, I would grab that one for 1000 dollars. Moving from 6 string guitar to 10 string E9 is not all that difficult. John Fabian made a nice video called "Demystifying the E9 pedal steel for the guitar player" or something close.
Here, I found the link.
http://steelguitar.com/beginners.html |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 2 Nov 2015 7:24 pm
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Do it right from the beginning. 10 strings. 3 pedals;4 knees.
6 string steels are for those guys who think Skynnyrd is country & call it "steel pedal".
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 3 Nov 2015 5:12 am
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I was about to replace my old 12-string with a six-string guitar to focus on the meat of PSG, but found an equivalent deal on a 10-stringer.
Jerry Overstreet is right:
| Quote: |
| I think the 6 Shooter is for guitar players looking to get some pedal steel sounds.... |
It'd be fun to have one (Jerry does). There are good ones--Six-Shooter, Cougar, Hudson, which I almost bought--but by now I would have missed
being able to play things I was able to do before. Learning to think PSG, as Lane says, is important in grasping the range of the instrument.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Michael Edelman
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 3 Nov 2015 6:12 am
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Points taken. I'm on the waiting list for a Stage One. In the meantime I'll keep playing my C6 lap steel... or should I retune it in E?  |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Nov 2015 6:30 am
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I guess if I absolutely had to get by with fewer strings for E9, eight would probably be the minimum. If I'm not mistaken, these six-stringers are tuned to two E triads? For E9 pedal playing, single-note lines are mostly ruined without at least the F#'s.
That's one of the reasons C6 is such a versatile tuning for lap steel, because it has at least one 'in-between' scale tone to work with, even with only six strings. Dobro players are able to get by with two triads, but they make up for it by leaning heavily on open strings to fill the gaps.
Most all pedal steel instruction material assumes the standard 10 strings. To try to learn from that material on a six-string, you would constantly need to be translating string numbers. |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Nov 2015 6:51 am
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Michael,
Is your lap steel six or eight strings? If you have eight, then you could try E9 by either leaving off the standard strings 1 & 2, or 9 & 10. Experimenting with that would somewhat initiate you to the tuning.
If it's six strings, then I would leave it on C6 and just keep working with that for now. |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Nov 2015 10:21 am
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| For six, I guess you could also try out the old E7 tuning (top to bottom = E-G#-B-E-D-B). Just keep in mind though that the E9 pedal steel tuning is all about smooth transitions between chord inversions. It will be a much different (and much more fun) experience with pedals. |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 4 Nov 2015 3:39 pm
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| Jeff Harbour wrote: |
If I'm not mistaken, these six-stringers are tuned to two E triads? For E9 pedal playing, single-note lines are mostly ruined without at least the F#'s.
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They come tuned like that from the factory. It's easy enough to change things round though. I tuned mine like strings 4-9 of an E9 pedal steel with A&B pedals. This gave me a standard A6 tuning with pedals down.
After a while, I decided I wanted the high G# so tuned is the same as strings 3-8. |
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Karl Paulsen
From:
Chicago
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Posted 4 Nov 2015 5:22 pm
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| Michael Edelman wrote: |
| Points taken. I'm on the waiting list for a Stage One. In the meantime I'll keep playing my C6 lap steel... or should I retune it in E? |
Good Choice.
My Encore (the step up from the stage One) just arrived yesterday and the build quality appears far ahead of the Fessenden 6'ers I saw in Nashville.
It will be more work to learn, but my suspicion is that if you had gone with the 6-shooter and enjoyed it you would have wanted a 10 string at some point anyway. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 5 Nov 2015 9:46 am
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Getting a Six-Shooter as an entry into serious pedal steel is like buying a 2-octave digital keyboard at ToysRUs as an entry into playing piano... it's half-assed.
The 6-stringer is for guitarists who don't need or want to be challenged by learning another instrument, only to get the effect of the instrument. Which is okay in and of itself, but it's not for someone wanting identification as a steel guitarist.
Just MHO.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 5 Nov 2015 10:21 am
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Vote Herb
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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