| Visit Our Catalog at SteelGuitarShopper.com |

Post new topic The REAL challenge..............
Reply to topic
Author Topic:  The REAL challenge..............
Ray Montee


From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
Post  Posted 29 Oct 2015 9:35 am    
Reply with quote

How many of you enter the gig with NO sheet music tab or any other type of crutch?

When I go to play, I have not a care in the world as to what songs 'might' be played; what keys will be used most, etc.

When I start to play, I'm referencing the 'melody' to some degree and what comes out of the amp is just by chance.

To me, it's always exciting to see how it turns out at the end of the song.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Len Ryder

 

From:
Penticton B.C.
Post  Posted 29 Oct 2015 10:45 am     The Real Challenge
Reply with quote

Ray, we're from the same era when we played a lot and with different people on a lot of different gigs. Who had time to rehearse unless it was for a radio or a T.V. show? I remember very distinctly of many times going in to record and just given the key, try things with unfamiliar musicians and record it. If that didn't work for the artist; start all over again.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Alan Tanner


From:
Near Dayton, Ohio
Post  Posted 29 Oct 2015 5:00 pm    
Reply with quote

Try playing at an open mike venue. Singers (loosely used) think just because you play an instrument that you should know every toon ever written, along with the timing, the kick off, the melody line, the breaks, and the key to said toon. Even if they, the so called "singers" themselves don't have a frikking clue about what it is they are trying to do. Chart.....hahhahaahahahahahaha
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Rich Upright


From:
Florida, USA
Post  Posted 29 Oct 2015 6:47 pm    
Reply with quote

Never once used a tab or sheet music for any gig or recording session.
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 29 Oct 2015 10:28 pm    
Reply with quote

Rich Upright wrote:
Never once used a tab or sheet music for any gig or recording session.

Same here. I see chord charts now and then, or lyric sheets with chords (often wrong - thanks to the internet), but most often a guitar player expects me to be able to read his hands.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bob Hoffnar


From:
Austin, Tx
Post  Posted 30 Oct 2015 5:03 am    
Reply with quote

Not using charts or written music only works if you are playing music you know already or if the music you are playing is within a genre that you have a complete familiarity with.

I personally dread musicians that refuse or are unable to read charts. Bass players that are unsure if the solo is the turnaround or chorus is a typical stage problem. The clashing of altered notes when players are unsure of what sub chords are being used sounds pretty crappy too.

In sessions you better be pretty freakin awesome if you think you can catch every subtle nuance of a tune and play it perfect without having heard it before.

I play hundreds of gigs with different pop bands and singer songwriters. I often don't have time to even listen to the music before I am on stage or studio. If I can't follow a number chart ,lead sheet or manuscript I don't work.

If you only play in one style no matter what else is going on then charts ar no problem. You get hired to play the same thing you always play. That works for many players. I personally am not interested in only playing music I know already .
_________________
Bob
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Scott Duckworth


From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
Post  Posted 30 Oct 2015 6:38 am    
Reply with quote

I play mostly gospel music. Some that I do as solos with a track I chart out. If I'm playing along with a choir and hymnbook, hopefully someone tells me what key, as I don't use the hymnbook. If they forget to tell me what key, I use the "Flatt & Scruggs" method... "y'all start and I'll slide 'till I git thar."

Occasionally I'll back a soloist using a track that doesn't have steel guitar, then its "playing in the spirit".
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it

I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Steve Green


From:
Gulfport, MS, USA
Post  Posted 30 Oct 2015 7:24 am    
Reply with quote

b0b wrote:
. . . or lyric sheets with chords (often wrong - thanks to the internet), . . .


Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad I HATE this!! Happens all the time! A guitarist or bassist will come in with a sheet they've printed off the internet (with blatantly wrong chords), and swear the rest of the band is wrong (even though the band's been playing that song for years) because everyone knows "they can't put it on the internet if it's not right".
_________________
Some songs I've written
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Christopher Woitach


From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 30 Oct 2015 8:03 am    
Reply with quote

I would never think of sheet music as a crutch. The music I get called for requires the ability to read on many of the gigs. I know zillions of tunes in many genres, and have a good ear, but if I'm on a jazz gig I'm expected to know, either from memory or from charts, exactly what chord goes where, and not fool around and guess.

It's nice when I'm the leader and I notice the sidemen have brought music stands and either books or, more common all the time, iPads. If I hear a musician fumbling around trying to figure out the tune, I would never hire them again.

I guess all of this depends on the kind of music you're playing.
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 30 Oct 2015 8:07 am    
Reply with quote

I'm starting to use a Kindle for my chord charts now. Cheaper than an iPad, and you can see it in bright sunlight.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Roger Rettig


From:
Naples, FL
Post  Posted 30 Oct 2015 8:15 am    
Reply with quote

I've been blessed with a quick 'ear' and it's served me well. But in a professional working environment I'm often required to read notation and, frankly, I couldn't take the job without the ability to do so. I agree with Bob Hoffnar.

In fact, 90% of my work calls for this skill. I'm not as fast a reader as I'd like to be (how I wish I'd worked harder at sight-reading when I was young and could more easily assimilate new disciplines) but my quick ear won't help me in a pit-orchestra on the first day of rehearsal. I'd look a real chump.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jerry Overstreet


From:
Louisville Ky
Post  Posted 30 Oct 2015 10:46 am    
Reply with quote

What Bob H. said. It's hard to play music you don't know. If you are able to rehearse new songs with the bands you'll be playing them with, that's fine...but in today's music, even new country, there are so many twists and turns no one could possibly be able to crystal ball them.

Many of us just get calls to do the same old country songs people have been doing for years....not too bad there, but more complicated stuff, pop, big band, jazz things, you'd better have a way to communicate changes if you're trying to do it off the cuff.

OTOH, if you just want to learn a few songs with some like minded folks just to have fun, nothing wrong with that either. I guess what you want out of it will determine what you put into it. ala learning to read charts, numbers etc.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 30 Oct 2015 1:44 pm    
Reply with quote

In my area, I and most musicians/bands, use iPads or something similar for set lists. Many of us, as we grow older, can't see set lists that are printed out and sit on the floor. I have to print it with a bold font at 72pt for me to see it. As it is, I have to use 60 on my iPad. There is nothing more unprofessional than having the band leader yell out what song is next, and others yelling back "what key?". That's garage band level in my books. Well, maybe a step above garage band. The closest unprofessional thing to that is having the vocalists have to read lyrics from an iPad type device, or from a big ugly binder full of song lyrics perched on a music stand in front of them. For heaven sakes, if you've done a song more than ten times, you should have it down. But I do hear older singers say their memory isn't what it used to be.

Some times if I really don't know a song, I'll write out a condensed version of a chord chart consisting of only one run through a verse, chorus, solo, bridge, under the name on the set list. But I don't believe in having chord charts, unless playing gigs that you need to read.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jim Robbins

 

From:
Ontario, Canada
Post  Posted 31 Oct 2015 8:53 am    
Reply with quote

Depends on the type of music.

Country - lots of gigs back in the day with no charts, no set list, little or no rehearsal. As a steel or lead guitar player with well-trained ears I could always rely on the bass player or rhythm guitar to play the (hopefully) right chords. & if they didn't play the right chords you have to go with them anyway. Apart from "Knock three times," you generally didn't have to worry about being tight on shots. In the bar band circuits I played in the early 1980s, I used to think if you needed to rehearse you weren't good enough to play. That could be why I didn't get past the bar band circuit ...

Rock / pop /alt country - almost always there is a set list and/or rehearsal but not charts. The only time I can remember using charts for a rock type thing was doing a pit band for Grease at a university production and backing up some singer with a bunch of arrangements for big band. Sometimes it is just a matter of talking down a set list before you go on stage and knowing where you are going to jam it out, sometimes it is a matter of trying to nail an arrangement like the record.

Jazz - I can't remember ever playing a jazz gig where the band didn't have charts, maybe a couple of jam sessions / parties where it was pure ear/memory.
View user's profile Send private message
Brett Lanier

 

From:
Madison, TN
Post  Posted 31 Oct 2015 10:09 am    
Reply with quote

Bob Hoffnar wrote:
Not using charts or written music only works if you are playing music you know already or if the music you are playing is within a genre that you have a complete familiarity with.

Or if you're Pig Robbins... How he is able to do sessions all day, creating parts on unfinished songs and remembering all the little twists and turns is beyond my understanding.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 31 Oct 2015 1:18 pm    
Reply with quote

I just want to add something about the singers having an iPad with the lyrics. The band I played with last night, the lead singer does "Don't Rock The Jukebox". Even with the words right in front of him, he still does the second verse (with "there ain't nothing like a steel guitar") where the first verse is supposed to be. The really funny thing is, he still does the 2nd verse where it should be. So, he only sings that 1 verse through the whole song. And he throws in 3 solos, making the song excessively long, and torture hearing the same verse over and over.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Rick Schacter

 

From:
Portland, Or.
Post  Posted 3 Nov 2015 7:22 pm    
Reply with quote

Ray,

Playing by ear is definitely an important skill for a musician to have.

But being able to read a chart is not a "crutch". It's an additional skill.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Frank James Pracher


From:
Michigan, USA
Post  Posted 3 Nov 2015 9:48 pm    
Reply with quote

I keep a "cheat sheet" near me with the set list and a note next to each song with the key it's in.
_________________
"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one"
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Jump to:  
Please review our Forum Rules and Policies
Our Online Catalog
Strings, CDs, instruction, and steel guitar accessories
www.SteelGuitarShopper.com

The Steel Guitar Forum
148 S. Cloverdale Blvd.
Cloverdale, CA 95425 USA

Click Here to Send a Donation

Email SteelGuitarForum@gmail.com for technical support.


BIAB Styles
Ray Price Shuffles for Band-in-a-Box
by Jim Baron