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Topic: Zum Hybrid? |
Ron Sodos
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2015 9:12 am |
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| Someone explain what exactly the hybrid is and how it is different. |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 22 Oct 2015 5:21 pm
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Sorry Ron it's a trade secret !! You'll just have to buy one to find out 
http://www.zumsteel.net/hybrid.html
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Stephen Williams
From:
from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2015 9:27 pm
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So the highest raise on a string engages the body. The next highest raise does not? Does open string also not engage?
Wouldn't having all the open, unraised string fingers engaging the body be better? |
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Robert Parent
From:
Gillette, WY
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2015 7:52 am
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Stephen,
That's why it's called a "hybrid". It's a combination all pull and a p/p.
The raises are tuned like a p/p and the lowers like an all pull.
The advantage over a full p/p is that you don't need slack in the pull rod to accomodate a lower on the same string. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 23 Oct 2015 10:48 am
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Not much similarity to a push-pull. What I see is a standard all-pull changer with one extra stop screw on the end plate and a different (and seemingly optional) tuning procedure. The longest raise is tuned at the extreme end of the raise lever's travel and the open note is then compensated with a screw which pushes the raise lever in off its normal 'open' resting position. The tuning order is similar to a push-pull, but nothing else.
Mechanically it is just an all-pull changer with an extra stop screw that pushes the raise lever to compensate on the open tuning. It is only contacting the ~1/16" thick raise lever, not the actual finger where the string is resting. The drawing doesn't show the split screws but I assume they contact the actual finger so the lowers would have a fairly solid contact same as with any all-pull split screw.
Nothing too magical about this, it appears that the only significant difference is the positive contact on the raises. I suppose the open tuning screw on the end plate gives a little more direct contact than just having the raise lever contact the comb in the open position. I've never seen/heard one in person -- does it really sound much different that the standard all pull, all else being equal? |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2015 10:53 am
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Buddy Emmons thought so.  |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 23 Oct 2015 10:53 am
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| Have you heard or played one Erv? |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2015 10:57 am
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When I heard about the Hybrid, I ordered one from Bruce. At the time I contacted Bruce about ordering one. he said that Buddy was trying out a straight all pull Zum and a Hybrid. Buddy decided on the Hybrid.
I figured if it was good enough for Buddy, it was good enough for me.  |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 23 Oct 2015 11:05 am
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| I'm just curious how much actual tangible tonal difference the hybrid changer makes vs. an otherwise identical Zum with standard changer. There is just not that much difference mechanically. All the Zums I've heard have sounded great anyway, they are obviously an extremely well crafted instrument, hybrid or not |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2015 11:10 am
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I noticed on the Hybid that I could get some of the "growl" that the Emmons p/p's are noted for.
There must be a noticable difference if steelers are willing to pay the premium price that they are demanding at present. |
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Andy Eder
From:
North Florida, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2015 4:17 pm
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Hi Ron,
Your PM arrived jumbled and not readable.
My email is andysguitars@hotmail.com or phone 850-363-4970.
Thanks,
Andy |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 25 Oct 2015 10:57 pm
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Ian I was able to compare directly as I had a standard Zum when I got my first Hybrid ... there is definitely a subtle difference in tone, which is more noticeable the more you play a Hybrid - I kept going back to my standard changer Zum to compare and could tell the difference.
I now own 2 Hybrids and have sold the standard changer guitar - having said that, the standard guitar was a great guitar too.
If you get a chance try one out !
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 6:16 am
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| IMO the fuss over "body contact" is B.S. If a string sounds better when it is raised all the way, then you should be able to hear it when you mash that pedal. Do you hear it? I didn't think so. And would you want a string to sound different from the other strings (better?) only when it is raised? I didn't think so. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 6:18 am
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| Paddy Long wrote: |
| Ian I was able to compare directly as I had a standard Zum when I got my first Hybrid ... there is definitely a subtle difference in tone, which is more noticeable the more you play a Hybrid - I kept going back to my standard changer Zum to compare and could tell the difference. |
I compared the 2 at Scotty's show and I preferred the old non-hybrid tone. But the sample size was very small and it may have been due only to normal variations between guitars. |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 1:37 pm
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In the (patient) notes, builder stated that the body in the forward part of the changer slot had never been used for a stop...???? Don't all the pull release guitars use this system, the one I built a long time ago used this system. Also the lowers only on an all pull rest on the body until activated.
Not trying to stir up anything, just remembering back when.
BF
Edited to correct my mistake, meant to say PR, not AP. sorry..B
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!!
Last edited by Bill Ford on 28 Oct 2015 4:52 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 2:23 pm
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In a typical all pull changer raises are tuned with the nylon nut (and the pedal/lever stop), so no, typically the finger is not pulled to the extreme end of its possible travel (e.g. stopping against the body). You can typically push on the end of a given tuning nut when a raise is engaged and further raise the pitch, so it is only pressing against the tuning nut and the internal pivots on the finger itself, not the body of the guitar.
The idea here is that you first tune the maximum raise at that extreme point of travel by essentially pushing the tuning nut as described above as far as it can go, then tune the open note via the compensator screw that contacts the raise lever on the end plate. This is where the (erroneous) comparison to a push-pull or pull-release changer comes from.
Taking nothing away from this system, as those who own them seem to love what it does, I think there are better, perhaps simpler ways to achieve this goal with a split-able, all-pull changer. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 26 Oct 2015 3:34 pm
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| Earnest Bovine wrote: |
| IMO the fuss over "body contact" is B.S. If a string sounds better when it is raised all the way, then you should be able to hear it when you mash that pedal. Do you hear it? I didn't think so. And would you want a string to sound different from the other strings (better?) only when it is raised? I didn't think so. |
I concur. The most obvious example on my push-pull is the string 4 half step raise, which gets used all the time. It's not pulled against a solid 'body stop' like the whole step raise on the C pedal, but it doesn't sound any different tonally, sustain any less, etc., at least not to my ear. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 27 Oct 2015 7:04 am
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Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that the patent that Robert posted is the Hybrid. My Hybrid was totally different than that diagram. I did own a 80's or 90's model that had a changer like that though. At the time, I asked Bruce about it and he explained it to me but don't remember now but it wasn't a Hybrid.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 27 Oct 2015 9:42 am
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_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!!
Last edited by Bill Ford on 28 Oct 2015 4:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 27 Oct 2015 9:46 am
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| Isn't that a pull release? |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 27 Oct 2015 11:57 am
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It sure is
It's my Marlen |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 27 Oct 2015 1:45 pm
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I always considered the contact of raise fingers to the body as adding mostly to a solid pedal feel. It seems the near constant contact (spring loaded) of the lowering fingers-to-body would add more to that PP tone.
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Jerry Jones |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 27 Oct 2015 1:46 pm
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Meant to say pull release...My Bad..BF
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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