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Topic: What 10" Speaker for Pedal Steel? |
Rick Contino
From:
Brattleboro, Vermont
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Posted 19 Oct 2015 8:32 am |
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A quick search hasn't turned anything up on the forum.
I'd like something lightweight that could handle C6 as well as a 10" possibly can. I would have it in an open-back cab. I really like the sound of my 15" SICA, and if there is something with a similar sound in a 10" I'd be very interested.
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Shobud "The Professional" D-10, National "New Yorker," Gwin Custom Tube Amp thru 15" SICA neo speaker. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 19 Oct 2015 8:54 am
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I don't think you'll ever find a 10" that will sound close to a 15", especially for C6. But, depending on the wattage of the amp, my first choice would be a JBL. I'm sure there are some that are better and worse.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 19 Oct 2015 9:49 am
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Don't know how anything compares to a single 15 in a steel rig, but 12's work well....so a pair of 10's might be OK.
A friend of mine kept pestering to try his 4/10 Bassman with my steel....I didn't like it, but that might be just the amp and the way it was eq'ed.
If I was looking for 10's, probably the K110 JBL would be my choice for steel. HD enough to handle the C neck, I think.
Edit: BTW, does Eminence make a 10" in the EPS series? I know they have 12's like the TT [Travis Toy model] designed for steel.
Don't see a 10 like that for guitar, but they do have those in similar appearance for pro audio with good power rating. http://www.eminence.com/pro-audio/neodymium-series/?size=10#speakers. I'm sure they'd welcome inquiries as to how they work for instrument. |
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Luke Sullivan
From:
El Paso de Robles, CA, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2015 10:18 am Lil' Buddy
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Eminence Patriot Lil' Buddy works pretty well in my Fender 25R. Eighty bucks. Hemp cone handles bass. Probably a Tone Tubby would be good, though a little pricey.
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Mullen PRP D10, accordions, Harmony Sovereign guitar. |
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Mike Brown
From:
Meridian, Mississippi USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2015 11:35 am 10" speaker for C6th steel guitar
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| It would take a bit of R & D to determine how large the cabinet, what the port size should be and the SPL that is required. Haven't tried this yet, but I recommend the 1008-8HE Black Widow speaker. Good luck! |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 19 Oct 2015 1:17 pm
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It's my understanding that the early pedal steel players liked using the Fender Bassman with 4 10s. Just add a reverb and it's a pretty good amp with a lot of tonal character. I think there is something special about putting 4 ten inch speakers on one baffle.
Having said that, many years ago I had a silver face Fender Vibrolux (I think that was the model, maybe it was a Tremolux) with 2 10s and 2 6L6 power tubes putting out about 35 watts. I put two JBL inches speakers in it. It was great with a strat, but pretty whimpy for PSG.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Paul Arntson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2015 5:58 pm
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Like Paul said "Four of them".
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Excel D10 8&4, Supro 8, Regal resonator, Peavey Powerslide, homemade lap 12(a work in progress) |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2015 5:58 pm Re: 10
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| Mike Brown wrote: |
| It would take a bit of R & D to determine how large the cabinet, what the port size should be and the SPL that is required. Haven't tried this yet, but I recommend the 1008-8HE Black Widow speaker. Good luck! |
http://www.linearteam.dk/?pageid=winisd |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 19 Oct 2015 6:21 pm
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| It's not my regular rig on account of the fact it weighs about 437 pounds, but I can report that my Mesa 2x10 bass cabinet sounds pretty darn good for steel. I believe a lot of it is the size of the box and that it is tuned/ported for good bass response. I don't know what make/model the speakers are though. |
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 1:10 am
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Evans RE 200 with a Weber California. I've played clubs unmiked with no problems.
The amp goes into the seat, along with the volume pedal etc. Whole set up, two flight cases.
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Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 2:31 am
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I was gonna suggest whatever ten that Scott Buffington puts in his amps.
It can handle the full range, but it'll never fool your ears into thinking you have a 15 in a deep-voiced cabinet. If you want that fat low end, you have to move some air.
In my younger days I had a Session 500, with an Acoustic 4X10 cab. That also sounded great
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 2:37 am
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My amp originally had an Eminence Deltalite or something....
It was a lot lighter than the Weber and handled more power. Should have kept it.
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Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 5:32 am
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| I play a U12 and the smallest speaker that I would go down to would be a 12" speaker .... Better yet , I would run 2 of them in a deep ported cab and plenty of power to move air .... You could use 10's but the bottom end is not pronounced enough for me ...It's thin sounding to my ears compared to 12's or even a 15" speaker ....Then again , it's all up to the individual ....I speak for myself only and what my needs are ... YMMV .... I own many amps and speaker cabs , including an older Tweed 4-10 Bassman ....Taking the line out of the 4-10's and running into a 15" speaker is another story altogether !!....Jim |
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Gary Meixner
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 1:47 pm
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With guitar speaker enclosures the norm seems to be a front loaded driver in a conveniently sized, open or closed back cabinet. This makes sense since these are the easiest cabinets to build, keeping costs down and maximizing portability and minimizing weight. I have always wondered though couldn't you build a full range enclosure that had enough bass response utilizing 10" full range driver. It may require a more advanced cabinet design where the cabinet mechanics play a more significant role. I understand how bass frequencies would require more air to be moved but aren't there other ways to achieve this then by radiating directly off the driver cone?
Gary |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 4:35 pm
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| My current bass rig is a Carvin BX500 into a Mesa 2x10 ported bass cabinet. It's way loud, very clean and punchy. The speakers are bass speakers with an appropriate bass frequency response curve, mounted in a properly designed enclosure. I can assure you it is not "thin" sounding, for bass or for steel. My other bass rig is a giant old Ampeg SVT, it has eight 10" speakers, large sealed enclosure the size of a small refrigerator. Far from thin sounding. They were a staple in all your finer giganto arenas worldwide throughout the 70s. Much more to consider here than just the diameter of the cone or voice coil, which is where everyone seems to focus. |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 6:23 pm
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| Gary Meixner wrote: |
| ... I have always wondered though couldn't you build a full range enclosure that had enough bass response utilizing 10" full range driver. It may require a more advanced cabinet design where the cabinet mechanics play a more significant role. |
Google "Thiele/Small"... I'm sure wiki's got good stuff. That's what you're talking about, there... you can really tell when you're plugged into a properly ported cabinet, it sounds like 4x the size. Mesa and Bogner are just two of the many that make proper speaker cabinets with this kind of tuning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small
http://www.eminence.com/2011/06/sealed-vs-ported-enclosures/
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New FB Page: Lap Steel Licks And Stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/195394851800329 |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 7:10 pm
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| Gary Meixner wrote: |
| [...] couldn't you build a full range enclosure that had enough bass response utilizing 10" full range driver. It may require a more advanced cabinet design where the cabinet mechanics play a more significant role. I understand how bass frequencies would require more air to be moved but aren't there other ways to achieve this then by radiating directly off the driver cone? |
You can always go the "reduced transmission line" route in order to increase low-end efficiency. Cabinets will become larger and heavier than the normal open-back or ported cabs though.
Decades ago I used one 7" speaker to drive a "horn / reduced transmission line" cab, and although the amp was only at around 80 Watts it had no problems competing with large PA systems w/12-15" speakers powered by 400-800 Watt amps in the 25-6000Hz range. Also went lower than most PAs of its days, as it "bottomed out" at -10db around 12Hz.
So, with the right speaker and cabinet-design, low-end efficiency can be increased quite considerable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_transmission_line |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 7:16 pm
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When I mentioned "thin" sounding , I'm talking about taking the same cab size in cubick inches and style and running either 10" speakers or 15 " speakers ....Let's see ......We have an Ampeg SVT cab with 8 - 10's ......... Put 15" speakers in the same cab with the same area of speaker cone as the 10's , and see which one will have a deeper tone .......
Take a bassman cab that has 4-10's in it and play pedal stel thru it......Then throw in just one 15" speaker and see which one has the more full tone ....
Today you listen to bass players that have a bass style that is not deep and boomy , but tight and focused sounding , they are pleying thru a 2-10 or 4-10 cab .....
Take a different style bass player with a heavier bottom end ,and they will be playing thru at least one cab with a 15's speaker .... and one with 2 or 4 -10's
I'm not arguing the fact that the cabinet size plays an important role in how the instrument sounds ..... I totally agree ..... but take the same cabinet size and run 10's in one cab and 15's in the same size cab and the 10's will not be as full sounding ....
and as I said earlier , it's up to the individual, and what type of tone they are looking for . ..... |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 9:22 pm
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Anyone remember Bose 901 stereo speakers? Each cabinet had nine 4 inch full range speakers, eight pointed back and one pointed forward. They put out a surprising amount of low end.
I'm not convinced that you have to have a large speaker cone to get good bass response.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Dustin Rhodes
From:
Owasso OK
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 6:33 am
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| Paul Sutherland wrote: |
Anyone remember Bose 901 stereo speakers? Each cabinet had nine 4 inch full range speakers, eight pointed back and one pointed forward. They put out a surprising amount of low end.
I'm not convinced that you have to have a large speaker cone to get good bass response. |
You 100% do not need a 15" speaker for a full sound. You need a well designed speaker inside a well designed cabinet for that speaker. I'm primarily a bass player and have played plenty of cabs with 10's that do just fine with my 5 string.
None of what I just said should be taken as agreement that anything Bose has ever made actually sounds good. |
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Alan W. Black
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 7:21 am
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New to the instrument. I've always found this strong preference for 15" speakers very surprising. An E9 doesn't go as low in frequency as a six string does (83hz) and 15" among 6 stringers is unheard of. Is it really about lows? Or is it about the relatively reduced highs a 15" will almost certainly introduce, at least in the specs. ?
One of these days I'll summon the courage to ask about this super high wattage solid state amp thing, but let me check it out on my own first. Blows my mind. Open, maybe.
Also
- there are plenty of subwoofers in high end audio that have 10" drivers. And audiophile setups need to reproduce low organ notes, contrabasson, ect.
- you play steel through an Ampeg SVT head (two handles!) and the 8x10" Ampeg SVT cabinet? I want to go to your gig! I'll love it. I might be in a lawn chair in the parking lot, but I'll be very enthusiastic.  |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 8:39 am
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| Alan W. Black wrote: |
| I've always found this strong preference for 15" speakers very surprising. |
Me too 
| Alan W. Black wrote: |
| An E9 doesn't go as low in frequency as a six string does (83hz) and 15" among 6 stringers is unheard of. Is it really about lows? Or is it about the relatively reduced highs a 15" will almost certainly introduce, at least in the specs. ? |
A Uni, Extended or C6 PSG does go lower than a 6 string guitar...
http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/var/s10tt-10.html
...but I've personally never felt the need to sacrifice definition (clear lows) in order to get stronger lows. Besides, I have never tried to dampen highs from my steels neither electronically nor acoustically, as it is so easy to achieve that effect - when needed - via the picking technique. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 8:46 am
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The high power is for headroom to keep microtonal intervals clear and clean.
They're more prone to break up and sound worse when they do.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dustin Rhodes
From:
Owasso OK
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 8:46 am
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| But for bass 10" woofers are the standard. Theres not a bass 10" out there that can't handle the low C or B on a steel. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 10:36 am
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| Alan W. Black wrote: |
| ...you play steel through an Ampeg SVT head (two handles!) and the 8x10" Ampeg SVT cabinet?... |
hee hee, I've never played my steel through the SVT but I should try it sometime just for fun. It will never be seen out on a steel gig though, I prefer portability (it hasn't even been out on a bass gig in years). |
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