C6th S10/11 anyone ?

mickd · From: london,england

I have a Sierra Session U12 that I am very happy with, but I treat it as 2 necks and most of the time I have it in B6th mode with the E-lower lever engaged.

So I have been thinking, it would be good to get a 2nd steel setup as a pure C6th guitar that would allow me to have extra C6th levers. Ideally this would be keyless and would have 11 strings (so I get both C6th top strings, but I suppose a S10 would do at a push (or maybe a S12 with one string unused).

For those who already have a dedicated C6th guitar, do you have 5+4 or do you make do with less on the floor by using extra levers ?

You do see S10 with 5+4 or 5+5 advertised occasionally, but these will probably be setup for extended E9, so the copedant would need to be changed. What would be the best choice on the 2nd hand market for a guitar with spares available and easy copedant changes ?

Presumably there'd be no point in shifting the pedals into the centre - if you leave them to the left then you can use LKR without having to shift this lever over to the right. Or am I missing something ?

fraser · From: seattle wa

Hi,

I have a S10 C6th 5+5 but it was built that way, not converted. The pedals are in the center and I have extra knee lever options. Sort of in a hurry today but email or reply if I can help in any way

Fraser

Jay Jessup · From: Charlottesville, VA, USA

In past I have found it confusing to be playing guitars with two different setups but I pursued exactly what you are talking about anyway. I bought a nice MCI S-10 with 3+4, pedal 1 became C6 pedal 5, pedal 2 became #7 and pedal 3 became #8. With the right knee levers I lowered the third and raised the fourth a half tone each. With LKL I put on C6 pedal 6 and with LKR I did the reverse ie: lowering the high E and raising the low E a half tone each(I wound up liking this change so much I put it on the fourth pedal of my D-10 in place of the major7 change that most people use). By the time I got this far I had run out of bell cranks so I didn't bother with putting the low C on the 10'th string (which would have also required I machine a deeper groove in the nut roller) So I just put a D string in the tenth position with no changes on it. I have seen other solutions to the same question posted here in the past so I know there are other ways to do this without custom ordering a new guitar. Good Luck

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

I'd LOVE to have a S12 C6 w/ 7+6! (which is pretty much the same C6 setup that I have on my extremely heavy D12 10+6)

mickd · From: london,england

Fraser - do you think having the pedals in the centre is an advantage ? I suppose its good from a familiarity point of view if you're switching between that guitar and a D10 or a U12.
Jay - do you find 3 is enough pedals ? I know Carl Dixon is a big fan of having P6 on a lever, but it must take some getting used to..I never thought about the need to recut the roller for the fatter lower C6th strings. That would be a problem for me. Is MCI an easy one to change copedant ? How are they for spares ?
Rick - 7 pedals

you must have 3 feet

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I have a S-10 C6th 5+4, specially built that way, with a high G.

mickd · From: london,england

David
do you have the pedals in the centre or to the left ? How are your levers set up ?
Mick

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

It would probably be a lot easier to just get a good secondhand D10 with the right pedals and knees that you want???

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

I have an Excel S10 with 3+4 set up for pure C6. On the floor, I have standard pedals 5,6&8, and on my KLs I have one that is standard pedal 7, two others to raise and lower the A's and one to lower the 3rd string C. Now that I think of it, I need raising the C to C# more than I need the pedal 8 changes. Maybe I'll change it around...

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

I have an S-10 Bigsby that I did some mods to, it now has 6-4 with bell cranks.

Instead of having P6 on a lever, I have E's to Eb on LKR and A's to Bb on RKL, for a quick 2-5, Knees in, C-7 (open strings), release the RKL, F7 -> Bb. Also I have a double stop on RKL so it's A's to Bb then up to B (4 pedal).

I have C's to C# on LKL (same as E's to F, LKL on E9), that and pedal 5 makes an A6 tuning (1 to 6 maj, same as the F-lever and pedal A combination on the E9 neck).

[This message was edited by chas smith on 16 September 2004 at 10:50 PM.]

Jay Jessup · From: Charlottesville, VA, USA

If you use three pedals in the standard E9 position you almost have to put either the 6 or 7 pedal on a knee lever to eliminate having to two foot it, I chose pedal 6, Jim chose 7 both ways work well. Is it enough pedals? I'd be willing to bet that 80% or more of all the C6 you hear, even today, is done with four pedals and one knee so it's really plenty. I use mine as a practice guitar stuffed into a small corner of a small room for that it's great but it still confuses me when I sit down and start playing something I've learned on the practice guitar on my regular D-10 (5+4 on C6) As far as cost I doubt if I have $700 in this guitar which is a bit cheaper than most D-10's I have seen. The MCI is real easy to make changes on but have been out of business for years and parts are unobtainium these days, sounds good though and doesn't weigh much.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I had my S-12 Sierra Olympic 5+5 set up as C6th for a while to try a 12 string expansion of the tuning. It worked well, and that gave me the incentive to order a Williams D-12 crossover.

mickd · From: london,england

Paddy - trouble with a D10 would be that 4 of the 5 levers would be setup for E9th..plus the smaller/lighter the better;
Jim - is that the C6th guitar you use on your CD's or is it just for experiment ? Did you have to have the bottom string groove deepened ?
Chas - sounds interesting. Modifying a Bigsby can't be easy - would have thought parts would be a problem;
Jay - I still can't grasp how having the pedals on the left makes '2 footing' more necessary than it would be normally..I mean if you want to
do 5&7 together then its a 2-footer unless you're using a lever for one..
B0b - I heard that the Olympic was more difficult to change copedant than the Session (they probably don't come a lot easier than the Session). Will look up your tuning, but I think I'd prefer 10 or 11 strings

Jay Jessup · From: Charlottesville, VA, USA

Parts aren't a problem for Chas he just makes what he needs, talented imagination, talented musician and a talented machinist some folks have all the tools!
Re: two footing, there are times when various combinations of pedals 5,6 and 7 need to be used in a lot of C6 music and it's a long reach and an awkward angle with the right foot from the volume pedal to the standard E9 pedal location so I put 5 and 7 next to each other then put pedal 6 on a knee lever. Jim did the reverse with pedal 7 on a knee lever, both options let you do all those changes without having to take your foot off the volume pedal. A side benifit is you don't have to change the steel around much so there's less to do to it if you want to turn around and convert it back to e9 to sell it. I don't know how big a deal the 10'th string nut would be, it might be something you could live with as is.
Jay

mickd · From: london,england

d'oh - I forgot the volume pedal (I don't use one, but will soon - as I have a low profile Hilton on order from Harry Venmann). Now I get it.
On the 10th string nut - if you did nothing, then the 10th string is going to be a bit higher off the fretboard than the other strings so you'd have to compenate for that in your playing, plus I suppose there might be a tendency for rattle ?

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

I like Jim Cohen's C6 Setup and his c6 style of playing.

I like P7 on a knee as he has, so you can keep your foot on the volume pedal.

You can pretty much keep your left foot on P5 and P6, most of the time....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

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