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Topic: Maverick |
Butch Colding
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 7:09 am |
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Bought a Maverick to learn on and have lots of questions. I play Guitar Banjo Dobro and Mandolin and want to learn pedal steel. I have played a little on a lap steel C6 and kind of use to that but E9 is a challenge. My question is I thought the lever(only one) lowered both E strings, mine only lowers the 8th. Also when I depress the A and B Pedal the C pedal moves also. Is this normal. I paly mostly Gospel music would there be any advantage to change the tuning to C6 and what would be involved.
Butch
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Ernest "Butch" Colding |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 7:59 am
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Instead of changing the tuning, I would advise changing guitars.  |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Butch Colding
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 11:51 am Maverick
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Thanks Doug, for your input I will have to deal with it until I can do better
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Ernest "Butch" Colding |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 12:07 pm
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| I believe the primary reason that the lever doesn't lower both 8 & 4 is the C pedal -- at the time the C pedal was deemed more important than the string 4 lower (probably for the reason Doug mentioned). It's a pull-release changer and in the stock setup doesn't allow both a raise and a lower on the same string but it's not too difficult to modify. It just needs a properly sized/stretched lower return spring to balance string tension and hold the finger steady in the open 'no-pedals' position, a stop for the lower and a bit of finagling to get all three to tune up correctly. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 1:16 pm
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| it's just the limitation of an early student steel. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 1:30 pm
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In my opinion, the limited guitars like the old student models are LEAST suited for students.
The key to playing these crazy things is learning how to THINK pedal steel, which is easiest when you have a guitar that can do it all.
But, yeah, it's supposed to drop 2 and 8.
As for the C pedal moving with the A pedal, that's a common thing, especially on push-pull and pull-release guitars. It's not a problem, just a reflection of the nature of the machinery.
BTW, a couple weeks ago I did a couple videos showing what could be done with just 6 strings and 2 pedals, because a friend had a Fessenden 6-Shooter, and I wanted to encourage him.
Here's the country one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T8YAvEXw4-I
And the blues one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OHSRmNColRA
The key is thinking pedal steel
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 2:08 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
BTW, a couple weeks ago I did a couple videos showing what could be done with just 6 strings and 2 pedals, because a friend had a Fessenden 6-Shooter, and I wanted to encourage him. |
Yes, you can play a lot of music just using the A and B pedals - I'd say concentrate on those for the time being and that will keep you occupied until you can afford to trade up to a more versatile model.
I'd recommend the Jeff Newman "Up From The Top" course - part one concentrates exclusively on the A and B pedals and is a great foundation for everything else.
http://www.jeffran.com/courses.php?content=UpFromtheTop |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 2:21 pm
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Jeff, I disagree. For a newbie, I'd recommend 3 and 4 at a MINIMUM.
Once you know how, once you think pedal steel, the challenge of the Maverick is fun. When you're learning, you want the changes, not the exercise of "I don't have that change. How else can I get that move?"
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 2:26 pm
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| how can you 'disagree' with jeff suggesting learning all you can with the 2 pedals first? you've got to start somewhere. geez! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 2:30 pm
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Learn ALL YOU CAN about ALL YOU HAVE. That's what I was trying to say.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Dave O'Brien
From:
Florida and New Jersey
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 5:15 pm Maverick
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Bobbe Seymour toured with a major female star with a Maverick. Enjoy your guitar and learn.
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Dave O'Brien
Emmons D-10, CMI D-10, Fender Deluxe Reverb, PV 112, Fender Pro Reverb
www.myspace.com/daveobrienband |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 5:28 pm
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When I was starting on steel, I bought a Birdseye maple Maverick. I obviously didn't know squat about pedal steels, but, I learned to play as much as I could on that steel. But...... After a year, I met several steel players who, had more stuff on their steels than I did. It was much easier to get changes and make it sound prettier. Those syrupy connecting chords that flowed so easily into each other and more positions to play. The Maverick, for it's time, was a good steel to learn on. It sounded great and mine was very steady with tuning as opposed to other student models of the time.
Having said all that, I think a perspective steeler should start on a steel with 3+4. It's a better overall starting point and you won't spend endless hours trying to find combination chords that you can't comfortably get on an older student steel.
However, you can still make a lot of music on it and of course, learning the neck can be done on both. |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 9:21 pm
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Did everybody forget that Lloyd played on a ton of hit records without lowering his 4th string? BTW, while I'm typing this Lloyd's "Desparado" just came on the radio. How 'bout that !
Butch, Buddy Charleton's body of work is a study of what you can do with two pedals and one knee lever.
The Maverick is the Piper Cub of steel guitars. A lot of airline captains learned in Cubs.
All the best to you in your quest.
Craig Baker 706-485-8792
cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com
C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024
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"Make America Great Again". . . The Only Country With Dream After Its Name. |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 20 Oct 2015 11:35 pm
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I don't think that many around here would disagree that a good solid guitar with 3x4 would be the ideal instrument to learn on, but the reality is that many folk, for a variety of reasons, have no choice but a 3x1 student model.
I think it would be useful to give advice to people in that position (and I get the impression that this includes the OP) on the best way to use what they already have rather than suggest buying something else. It's like asking directions and being told "You don't want to start from here".
I think the object of the exercise is to get far enough with a student model to see if this really is the instrument for you before spending the sort of money that would buy a car on something better - as we all know, this will happen eventually anyway but not everyone is in the position to do that from the off.
Remember how many great players started on lap steels they rigged up with pedals themselves using whatever parts they could find in the garage and without the benefit of being able to bounce ideas off people all around the globe and watch video footage of people showing them what to do.
I reckon someone with a Maverick and an internet connection would be able to make pretty good use of their time before upgrading to a new instrument and there is a wealth of talented and experienced people here to help them achieve that goal.
Last edited by Jeff Mead on 21 Oct 2015 1:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 1:18 am
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The lack of a 4th-string lower is a limitation of pull-release guitars in general, not just student models. My old D10 came with one lever that lowered 8 and 2 (this seems to have been the first lever that appeared back in the 60s), so I did what Ian Worley did. It increases the travel in the C pedal, but it's a reasonable trade. I also fitted an F lever. It can all be done but it'll never play like an all-pull.
But Jeff is right - I got myself "thinking steel" on just A & B.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 3:34 am Re: Maverick
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| Dave O'Brien wrote: |
| Bobbe Seymour toured with a major female star with a Maverick. Enjoy your guitar and learn. |
Terrible comparison, sorry...Bobbe Seymour was a master at using behind the bar pulls and a multitude of bar slants. He was a student of NO PEDALS before he went to pedals. Plus it's an old wives tale, he said so himself about touring with a Maverick. He may very well have used it in a show or something but he himself laughed about using it on an entire tour. He carried an Emmons D10 in his pocket.
Why do we keep insisting on using Loyd, Bobbe or anyone else as a comparison to a student steel configuration, both of those incredible master players know the fret board forward and backwards , understand each of the redundant positions and use slants to achieve the phrasing they are seeking. To somehow equate a guitar without the E's to Loyds playing is overlooking his immense talent and understanding of the fret board and how he executes.
I'm with Lane on this, the Pedal Steel basic instrument has evolved to a 3 + 4 Instrument BECAUSE of players like Bobbe, Loyd, Buddy, Jeff, Maurice, etc...the 3+5 configuration, 3+4 minimum, has built into the Pedal Steel the ability to capture many of the iconic phrases and movements that we love and hear, without spending 40 years sitting in your practice room learning a bar slant in one or two positions.
I see the setup like a Maverick to now be a deterrent to a new studying student. EVERY Steel allows the study of the AB Pedals but at some point each of us need to understand and grow into what those TWO E levers do in theoretical relationship to both the A and B Pedals. Otherwise our dominant playing will end up being an artifact of JUST the AB Pedals.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 5:18 am
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What Tony says makes sense, as once I had started to get a feel for it, the next thing I wanted to be able to do was lower that 4th string, so I did the surgery. Question is, do you need the F lever right from the start? (I added it at the same time to avoid two operations.)
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 6:48 am
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well Ian you ask an interesting question...do I need the F lever from the start...
well..uhmmm...
Do Piano teachers teach the Black Keys on day one or do they wait a year or so ?
When taking guitar lessons, do we only learn notes / chords that we can play with 2 or 3 fingers ? yes we START with the simple 2 or 3 finger chords on day 1 but by the time we get to lesson 6 , well you get the point.
many of us, me included, started on a very limited Steel like a Maverick, but, we didn't actually know it was limited because we didn't have a forum with multiple other players to tell us otherwise, so we, me included , clunked along with the AB PEDS and maybe the lever which dropped the 2nd string. Yep we got Teach Your Children down.
But then when we stepped up, now we had 4 knees including the E's up and down. So now after a year, we had to learn what the heck they were for . And after we did we came to the conclusion that without them a HUGE mandatory ingredient was missing from the first year study.
Evidently every manufacturer and anyone who wrote any learning material came to the same conclusion because it didn't take long for those silly two levers raising and lowering 4+8 to become an integral part of the Pedal Steel Guitar and the LEARNING process.
The A Ped, the B Ped, 4 + 8 raise and 4 + 8 lower ARE indeed the mandatory changes for this incredible Instrument and anyone starting the journey to play one of these things is not doing themselves any justice by studying with less.
YES..you want the F lever on your first Steel, you may not need it on day 1 but you will grow into it in a fairly short period. You want your first Steel to Raise and Lower strings 4+8 because not long down the road it will be a mandatory requirement to progress.
you all know I'm right... 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 9:47 am
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Butch simply asked us what time it was. . . and we've all told him how to build a watch.
Craig
_________________
"Make America Great Again". . . The Only Country With Dream After Its Name. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 2:49 pm
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the topic evolved...
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 3:13 pm
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When you ask a question on here you get more answers than you bargained for. That's how it works ... 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 4:48 pm
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Tony said:
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Do Piano teachers teach the Black Keys on day one or do they wait a year or so ? |
To me, this hits the nail right on the head. I want to vomit each time I see someone say, "start with just learning the A pedal. In six months, add the B pedal" etc... People are gravitating to wanting to learn the PSG because of what they hear on the radio and records (well CD's). That can't be done with just the A & B pedals and a lever that lowers 2 & 8.
Of course, finances play a big part on what someone starts on.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 21 Oct 2015 9:08 pm
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Butch,
I did t mean to rain on your parade. That wasn't my intention. You can play a lot of music with 3+1, to start with. You can get the majors and minors, plus sevenths. Even some 6th swing chords. The C pedal movement when using AB is somewhat normal, I think. You could always add a spring underneath to keep it up, if it bothers you that much.
As to changing over to C6th tuning, I have no idea how hard it might be, even if it would be worth it, since you can get some C6th chords with the E9th tuning. Learn as much as you can on it and experiment with different chordal sounds. They can be found, to a limit. Just remember, you're not going to get all the modern sounds, that, you hear on today's steels. The changes just aren't there.
Good luck with your steel and practice a lot, but, don't burn yourself out.
Remember, there were a lot of great steel players, who, played great stuff on simple set ups. |
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