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Topic: Playing With Two Bars At The Same Time |
Mat Rhodes
From:
Lexington, KY, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2015 10:15 am |
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There have been many discussions regarding the best tuning to use and the limitations of both pedal and non-pedal steel guitars. I'm in the process of putting the finishing touches on a bar that I designed for the picking hand that will hopefully deal with some of these issues. Before I start production on it and make a sizeable investment, I was hoping to get some feedback from some of you about its feasibility. What may be useful and cool to me may not be to others. I included a clip showing a few ways how this could be used, although I think a highly-skilled and talented player could come up with more impressive uses (i.e. please forgive my limited technique!). I invite you to discuss and critique it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68aBMxZQM8E |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2015 10:28 am
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Interesting, Mat. Sounds ethereal with an eastern vibe. If honest feedback is what you're seeking, I wouldn't buy one. This monster is already difficult to play. That said, I hope others disagree with me and you make a fortune with it.
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 9 Sep 2015 10:39 am
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I'm all for progression. There is much music still to be made with one bar however.
Two points.
The bar would probably be more useful on the thumb thus still allowing you to pick and play poly chords.
Secondly don't create another straight bar. Look at possibly creating one that has the ability to play a note out of line of the straight bar. If you can do it behind the bar is the never been done before option. On a single string. So you can get those trickier chords.
However I will digress and say if you actually used 12 strings this might still be a moot point for most uses. I may not have every single voicing available but I'm not too far from it. 
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2015 10:40 am
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I've got a video where I pick the strings with my teeth but for some reason I can't get it to load.  |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 9 Sep 2015 10:47 am
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I've used the 2 bar technique on a commercial recording and i've also tried using a slide ring on my thumb. That didn't work out too well, but had some interesting possibilities. I've often thought of how a good heavy round fingertip attachment would work on the right hand ring finger.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Mat Rhodes
From:
Lexington, KY, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2015 11:05 am
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| The biggest challenge with this is tone and sustain. The first prototypes didn't have enough mass and therefore wouldn't sustain very well. And the closer you pick behind the bar, the "tinnier" it sounds. I found that if you have it on a finger (in this case, the index) that's farthest away from whatever pick you're using, the better your tone will be. You can put it on the middle and ring fingers, but possibly at the expense of your right hand flexibility. The thumb would be interesting, but I don't know how it would affect faster passages that require alternating between the thumb and middle/index. Good points, though. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 9 Sep 2015 11:09 am
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Some interesting sounds, especially the oblique motion section however, I remain unconvinced of the true utility. Whether multiple bars, spring-loaded bars, rubber band driven, turbo-extender-whizzbang bars - what have you, I haven't heard anyone play a simple, beautiful song with these in a way that makes me covet one.
I'm all for progress and expanding the boundaries of the instrument, don't get me wrong. But for me personally, doing it the old fashioned way is a lifetime's work. That said, I'd try one out and see what I may be missing.
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com
Last edited by Andy Volk on 9 Sep 2015 1:12 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Mark Roeder
From:
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2015 11:41 am
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It reminds me of a player, Pat Quilter who plays with a heavy brass piece on the thumb of his bar hand. I was mesmerized by his skill and technique. He was really good with it. He said he had been doing it for about twenty years.
He told me a story about when he showed it to Jerry Byrd, you can imagine how that went.
Anyway...its all good....
_________________
www.deluxe34.com lap steel stands, Clinesmith, Gibson Console Grande, Northwesterns, The Best Westerns
https://www.facebook.com/TheBestWesterns |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 9 Sep 2015 3:52 pm
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| We're already having to co-ordinate both hands, both feet, and both knees. I, for one, am running out of body parts to use. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2015 6:16 pm
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| Quote: |
| I've often thought of how a good heavy round fingertip attachment would work on the right hand ring finger. |
There are some heavy bronze endcaps for plumbing, threaded with coarse pipe threads on the inside, various sizes. But it's an endcap-looking thing, if you could get one mounted into a lathe you could turn it down a good ways and polish it up. I'm kind of surprised you can get a patent on this one above because there's been so many experiments - but I guess if nobody else figured to patent it, well, congrats! I've also tried using a short semi-fat guitar slide on the picking hand's ring finger, with the finger then turned inwards. I never got any subtlety out of it, but I didn't try too long. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 9 Sep 2015 6:41 pm
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I think ultimately I agree with Andy's point, but there are special occasions when making a recording where one might tend to go to greater extremes to get a specific sound. In my case, I used a bar in my picking hand solely for hammering on strings already barred by the left. Special effects! Yeah, steel guitar is made for special effects. There will always be the image of Speedy and Sol in my head for creating excitement and taking unusual chances.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Guy Cundell
From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
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Posted 9 Sep 2015 9:53 pm
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Some interesting contrapuntal effects to be had but it looks like quite a deal of effort required to get there. Also, how much will the more cumbersome pick effect the nimbleness of the index finger?
(The only time I have worked two bars together successfully is when they were across the street from one another and even then you had to get the sets timed just right.) |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 9 Sep 2015 11:49 pm
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Coordinating both hands is all I can muster. And the knees are the 2nd thing to go bad..  |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 10 Sep 2015 7:21 am
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| I believe in the KISS theory, Keep It Simple Stupid! |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 10 Sep 2015 7:53 am
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Erv, you're such a stick in the mud. 
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 10 Sep 2015 7:55 am
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| Better than a stick in the eye! |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Posted 10 Sep 2015 11:16 am
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Having tried different things over the years for double sliding, I have always ended up being dissatisfied with the tone of the "second bar", like you said, Mat.
I guess for "new age, space patrol" it works well.
_________________
Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Sierra Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8: |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 10 Sep 2015 9:06 pm
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| It is indeed an idea, but I think it would have limited appeal, which if requires an investment of time or money on your end is an important consideration. |
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Tom Margulies
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2015 4:54 pm Two bars..
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| I tried playing after going to two bars and it sounded awful. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Mat Rhodes
From:
Lexington, KY, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2015 2:03 am
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Yes I have, Jim. It's a cool concept and I can tell they went to great lengths to get it to market. Imagine what could be done if both were used in combination! The similarities are in barring on a fret that's higher than the primary bar and hammer-ons (or variations of them). The differences are in the pick hand bar's ability to cover the entire span of the fretboard, contrary/oblique motion, independent melodies, limited slants, grips of up to four adjacent strings, clusters, etc.
I'm working on a composition/video with one of my dancer friends that I'll post in a few weeks. It'll better elaborate on some of the ideas that I covered in the demo video. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Mat Rhodes
From:
Lexington, KY, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2015 10:49 am
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Here's a video featuring a dancer that I worked with out of Louisville.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq-kVaIOOao
The intro and outro sections feature "rub-offs" (couldn't think of a better term for this!), where strings 2 and 5 are played with the bar hand in a fixed position and adjacent strings 3 and 4 are played higher on the neck. You can also hear some contrary motion (one bar goes down toward the nut while the pick hand bar goes toward the bridge) happening in the intro.
The section with the acoustic solo near the middle is an example of closer voicings (2nds) that, up to now, I hadn't been able to get with just one bar.
For grins, I'll probably post a demo video soon showing how some of the two-bar technique was played in those sections. |
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