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Topic: E9th setup change for Ralph Mooney Lick |
Steve Leal
From:
Orange CA, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2004 2:22 am |
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I have been thinking about how I can change my current E9th setup to play that classic Ralph Mooney lick (raising the E to F# by itself) without loosing any changes.
Here is my current E9th Setup:
LKL...raises E's to F's
LKR...raises F#'s to G's
RKL...lowers E's to Eb's
RKR...lowers D# to D, also lowers D to C#
A.....raises B's to C#'s
B.....raises G#'s to A's
C.....raises E to F#, also raises B to C#
Here is how I am going to change it:
LKL...raises E's to F's
LKR...raises string 1 F# to G, also raises B to C#
RKL...lowers E's to Eb's
RKR...lowers D# to D, also lowers D to C#
A.....raises B's to C#'s
B.....raises G#'s to A's
C.....raises E to F#
Notice.... I will move the B to C# change from pedal C to LKR. This will allow me to raise the E to F# independantly with pedal C. I can still get my 2 minor chord by using pedal B & C with LKR. I will also still be able to get my A7th chord voicing with my B pedal and LKR (raising F# to G). When I want to do runs going up the bar that utilizes the A7th voicing, I will just have to remember to use the LKR to raise the B to C# rather than stomping on pedal A.
How is that for thinking out of the box :-)
I think it is going to work great. Has anyone here tried it this way? [This message was edited by Steve Leal on 18 August 2004 at 03:31 AM.] [This message was edited by Steve Leal on 18 August 2004 at 03:33 AM.] [This message was edited by Steve Leal on 18 August 2004 at 03:42 AM.] |
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Mark Ardito
From:
Chicago, IL, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2004 9:35 am
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Steve,
I have never tried that, but I have thought about it many times. I first thought that I would put the "Mooney" move E -> F# by itself on a knee lever. Then I got to thinking that the Mooney lick is quick and needs to be clean. Having this move on a knee lever would not work well.
I look at your setup and I think that I would miss my B+C pedals too much. I like to play some quick licks on the B+C pedals and there is no way anyone can play it with a pedal and a knee lever. Just listen to the Tom Brumley licks on the Buck Owens recordings.
Let me know how it works out...
Cheers!
Mark
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Sho~Bud Pro I, Fender D-8 (C6&E13) http://www.darkmagneto.com
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Steve Leal
From:
Orange CA, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2004 7:28 pm
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Hi Mark. I just set it up and it works like a charm. I can still get the old B&C pedal lick with ease because the change is on the knee lever right over the B&C.
I can now get that great lick that I hear in those old records with the E raising to F# by itself. A good example of this lick is on Merle Haggard's "Sing Me Back Home" album....track 2...song called "Please Look Over Me". I looked in the cd liner and it doesn't say who played steel on that track, but I am assuming that it was Norm Hamlet since he is on most of the other album tracks. Does anyone know if it was Norm or Ralph?
I also just heard this lick in Buck Owen's "I Don't Believe I'll Fall In Love Today." I know that one was Ralph.
As far as getting the 7th voicing using the knee lever with A&B down, it works pretty good still. Just have to remember to release the knee lever whenever I want to lower the C# back to B when doing runs up and down the bar. Also have to make sure the 1st string gets blocked after playing it in a run, otherwise it sounds funny dropping a half step during the run. |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 19 Aug 2004 8:29 am
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I just want to point out that JayDee sounds every bit as Bakersfield as Mooney, and his copedent is vanilla E9th. You don't need a dedicated E-F# pedal to get the "Mooney sound". You just need to learn to "think Bakersfield".
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 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6) |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 19 Aug 2004 8:44 am
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Hey Steve,
I personally do have that floor pedal that brings the E to F# by itself but there are other ways of doing the same thing without losing the standard C pedal. One way for instance if if you're in the key of G on the 3rd fret and you want to raise string 4 a whole tone. Just go to the 8th fret with the E's lowered and use your A pedal on string 5. If you want to do the same thing as raising string 3 a half tone, in the same fret you'd just let off your KL which lowers the 4th string. I have the Brumley change on pedal 1 which raises the 7th string to G#. With the E's lowered that's the 5th of the chord so it's the same thing as using your A pedal in the open position. Using this along with the standard A pedal and letting off the KL gives me the C pedal stuff. You just play strings 4, 5, & 7 instead of 3, 4, & 5. Have a good 'un, JH
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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.
[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 19 August 2004 at 09:46 AM.] |
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Joerg Hennig
From:
Bavaria, Germany
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Posted 19 Aug 2004 10:40 am
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What b0b said, you can get very close on a standard E9 copedent or at least get the "feel" all right. I play a whole lot of Mooney stuff with my band and can nail those licks pretty well with a standard E9 setup, you just have to block carefully when using the C pedal for the 4th string raise only. But what we do is mostly from the Mooney with Waylon period. When I studied the older recordings, like Buck Owens, I noticed there are indeed some passages that require the single E to F# raise if you really want to recreate them accurately. Then there are other things, not necessarily Mooney, that you can do with that change which need the 5th string to stay as it is. I think, Steve, your copedent is a great idea. I might even try it myself just to see how it works.
Regards, JH |
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Jody Sanders
From:
Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Aug 2004 11:59 am
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| I had the change on RKR but I never could get it to sound right. I put it on pedal 8 on C6 as I never used it(my boo-waa is on pedal 4), and it works great. Jody. |
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Jim Florence
From:
wilburton, Ok. US * R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Aug 2004 12:28 pm
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I've had it on my RKR since 1968, works great
Jim |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 19 Aug 2004 12:33 pm
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| What Bobby said. I haven't heard a Mooney lick yet that requires the E-F# on a knee lever. |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 19 Aug 2004 2:32 pm
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Some would say that the crux of the matter is whether Moon ever sounds the B string when he hits his E-F# pedal. I've never noticed if he does or doesn't, but I really don't think that's the point.
Mooney's style is more about a certain bounce in the footwork, a natural shuffle rhythm in his picking fingers, and a very bright tone. It's not his copedent that makes his unique sound - it's his entire approach to country music.
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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6) |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 20 Aug 2004 3:46 am
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| Quote: |
| It's not his copedent that makes his unique sound - it's his entire approach... |
I agree totally, Bobby, but we're beating a dead horse. There's still a large segment of steelers out there that fervently believes that if a steeler does something that sounds good, it's gotta be...
the brand of steel
the pickups
the amp
the speaker
the processor
the bar
the picks
the strings
the cords
the tuning
the pedal
the box
the wood
the levers
the aluminum
the pedals
the black mica
...or any other of 100 different things.
I'm convinced this, uhh, what should I call it...obsession with "stuff" and "gimmicks" instead of music is why most "real musicians" laugh at us steelplayers.
In short, "It ain't what you play, it's how you play it." [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 20 August 2004 at 04:46 AM.] |
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Drew Howard
From:
48854
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Posted 20 Aug 2004 5:20 am
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b0bby's right, I never heard Mooney play E>F# along with any other string (as in "chord").
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Fessenden D-10 8+8 / Magnatone S-8 (E13)
[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 20 August 2004 at 06:21 AM.] |
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Jackie Anderson
From:
Scarborough, ME
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Posted 20 Aug 2004 8:22 am
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| A hearty "amen" to both b0b and Donny. Just listen to JayDee on something like Hillman and Pedersen's "Bakersfield Bound" CD -- and I bet there isn't one item on Donny's list that JayDee and Ralph have in common, including their copedants.... |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2004 10:18 am
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I just want to add that I have E to F# on a knee lever because many years ago I thought I needed it to get the West Coast Sound. I was wrong, and it's a decision that I now regret. It's become too engrained in my playing to change it now.
That's why I'm so vocal about it on this thread. The "conventional wisdom" of the time was that you couldn't get the Mooney sound without a dedicated E to F# change. That's just not true. If you want the change for other reasons, fine, but don't add it because you think you need it for Bakersfield music. You don't.
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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6) |
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Tom Olson
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 10:26 am
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Bobby, what about the G#-->G lower? Is that more useful for the Bakersfield sound than the individual E-->F# change, or is it pretty much the same deal?
If you had a choice between the 1st string F#-->G change and the G#-->G change, which would be more useful only for the Bakerfield/West Coast/Mooney sound?
Thank you very much for any response. [This message was edited by Tom Olson on 21 August 2004 at 11:27 AM.] |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 11:06 am
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I played in a band that did a lot of Bakersfield music back in the 1980's. I was the only lead instrument. I didn't have the G# to G change, and didn't miss it. I use that change for other things today - I don't usually think of it in the West Coast context.
Keep in mind that the F lever does exactly the same thing, 3 frets higher. You can also place those licks on the top two strings that Mooney didn't have, using the D and G levers. I think you'd be hard pressed to find specific Mooney licks that aren't possible on the standard copedent.[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 21 August 2004 at 11:38 PM.] |
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Steve Leal
From:
Orange CA, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2004 11:55 am
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Hi guys. Thanks for all of the responses. The whole idea of me separating the 4th and 5th string whole step pulls is to just raise the 4th WHILE playing the 5th string unraised. It is really a great sounding lick that I do not hear anymore on current country recordings. I really encourage you to listen to the Merle Haggard song "Please Look Over Me." This was the first song I ever heard this lick played and sat in my bed that night thinking how it was played. The next day, I sat at my steel and figured out a way to emulate it without any changes to my standard setup (I had to do it by raising the bar two frets and dropping the lower of the two strings a whole step). It worked ok, but was not perfect. I have only heard the lick in a few other songs, but that Merle song really sticks in my mind. Changing my setup has allowed me to execute this lick perfectly in the open position where I can combine it with other open position licks efficiently.
Bobby, I totally agree with you that JayDee is very bakersfield sounding and is one of my favorite steel pickers. |
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