Questions about net PSG you tube contributors

Bo Legg · Posted 16 Aug 2015 12:52 pm

One guy is all over the net with short steel guitar lessons but not one complete song.
He teaches but can he play?

Another guy all over the net with hundreds of steel guitar complete songs.
He claims he knows the proper technique to play and he says that any one that does it any other way â€œThey canâ€™t playâ€
He plays over his physical ability and is sadly lacking in the speed needed to play the licks he is trying to play.
He teaches but is there something lacking in his technique?

Paul King · From: Gainesville, Texas, USA

I have noticed the same thing. I keep my thoughts to myself, occasionally sharing them with another player. However, I do enjoy sitting down and listening to steel players play regardless of their level.

Mark Greenway · From: Lake Kiowa, Texas

So, who are you talking about Bo?

Bo Legg · Posted 16 Aug 2015 2:26 pm

It's not a matter of who, it's a matter of folks old or young trying to learn PSG and getting confusing messages.
I think it fair to ask these questions since one of these persons gives no examples of practicing what he preaches and the other seems to think his technique is an absolute.
The confusion is that the one guy giving lessons does things with his technique that would according to the other mean he can’t play.

DG Whitley · Posted 16 Aug 2015 2:50 pm

Well, I can think of a few, one would be William Litaker, then there's Troy Brenningmeyer, and also Mickey Adams.

Any of those Bo?

Bo Legg · Posted 16 Aug 2015 2:56 pm

This is something you should research yourself here and make up your own mind and give your opinion regarding good technique or lack thereof.
I think the folks you mention can play but I think this is something that needs to be addressed with the hopes that the confusion could be cleared up.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

don't do what i do.

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

I don't know about you, Bo, but when I was "coming up" in the late 70's, there were all kinds of differences in style and level of technique with both live and recorded playing. Then, as now, a good piece of the puzzle is up to the student, the "seeker". We need to explore, listen, experiment, and cull the stuff we don't like or need.

In my case, when I started I was very into "Country Rock" music, and classic country from there. At first I was really not interested in Western Swing, as it seemed dated and cheesy to me. As my ear and experience developed I became more enamored of it and eventually the fan I have been for years.

Expecting everyone to present information at the same level of competence and usefulness would lead to a really homogenized approach. I know in England there is a graded, tested system for those who want to call themselves guitar teachers. I wonder if the same exists for steel players and how that's working out.
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Bo Legg · Posted 16 Aug 2015 11:20 pm

Would a newbie really want to sit through a lesson on technique time after time every time he goes online and ask a question about learning something on his PSG or for that matter care a rats A about a persons ability to play or the technique he uses when all the newbie wanted to know about is say for example â€œMajor Pentatonic on pedal steel guitar â€ and he gets the answer to his question and good information like for instance
Mickey Adams
BEX 27C Pentatonic Excercise click here
Or instance he ask about Harmonizing scales.
Bob Hempker shows how he practices harmonizing scales. click here

Don R Brown · From: Rochester, New York, USA

As a relative newbie compared to many on here, it did not take me long to learn there are many different ways to do various things. For almost every time someone illustrates the "wrong" way to do something, you can find a well-respected player who DOES do it that way and makes it sound great.

Likewise, just as various players PLAY differently, we all LEARN differently. I had a PM exchange with another forumite a while back regarding (probably) the two teachers you mention. This member was a devoted student of one of the teachers, while I felt the other teacher's YouTube lessons were more beneficial to me. We concluded that whatever worked for each of us was fine. There is no reason why one approach or the other is "right" as far as short vs. long lessons, nor even between different ways to achieve vibrato, position your elbows, block the strings, or whatever.

It seems some people get so wrapped up in a quest for technical details that they don't care to make music and have fun.

John De Maille · From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.

Well said Don.
When I first started, back in the 70's, I was playing the steel in a country rock band, but, I had a very rudimentary approach to the steel. I met a fellow, who, was a real tech on the steel. This guy had it all down and could play intricate phrases with just the right finesse. He explained all the pedals and knee levers and how and where to use them. He was a real technician and I was very interested about picking his brain as much as I could, until, I heard him play live with a band. All of his technique and proper this and proper that, all went out the window. He couldn't play with a live band if his life depended on it. He was so absorbed in his approach, that, the train came and left before he got out to the platform. And, here I was, a babe in arms gelling functionally in a band making good music. I sought out different teachers after that, who, taught in different ways, but, got me to my destination, so to say. There are teachers, who, aren't good musicians and there are musicians, who, aren't good teachers. The key is to find someone who can do both and is open to different ways of playing the steel.

Chris Schlotzhauer · From: Colleyville, Tx. USA

What a BS thread.....
So you call out a few here who take the time to share what they learned, and you claim their technique is wrong because it's not like YOUR technique?
You claim they don't play complete songs, and then you complain when another plays complete songs? Really??

What difference does it make? If you come away learning something from these guys is all that matters.

I took guitar lessons from a guy who was not a good guitar player at all, but he was a great teacher. He had many teaching courses out published by Chet-freaking-Atkins.

BTW.....can YOU play????

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Great response Chris. I usually don't open any threads by the Leggs (if there actually is more than 1). They are worse than Hankey threads. But I made the mistake of opening this one. Him cutting down any player that contributes his knowledge for free on the web, shows his character.
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Wally Pfeifer · From: Illinois, USA

DITTO, Richard. I'm with you.
Wally
Not Surprised

considering the source.

Joachim Kettner · From: Germany

In all fairness Bo Legg can play. He put up examples in previous posts.
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Chris Schlotzhauer · From: Colleyville, Tx. USA

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

It's a tough room, Bo....

Niels Andrews · From: Salinas, California, USA

Anybody that would start a thread like this is a complete Legg.
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Bo Legg · Posted 17 Aug 2015 2:36 pm

I didn’t say anything at all about my technique or name a player or say that any player had bad technique or couldn’t play.
My criticism is only in regards to someone saying if you don‘t use their technique then “you can’t play”.
Then I notice that a lot of folks doing online lesson don’t use that technique 100%.
So does that mean I can’t play and about everyone I check out online can’t, I think not.
When you say yours is the only way then you should be almost perfect in your pickin’.
So if you are playing licks that don’t quit get there because of lack of speed do I assume there is something wrong with your technique. I don’t know that‘s why I‘m asking the question..
Some folks can play fast and others can’t. That doesn’t mean they can’t play.

Mike Wilkerson · From: Luther Oklahoma

i think bOb needs to close this one
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

When I started playing marimba I had to do a lot of research to learn good technique. I discovered that there were two competing ways of holding the 4 mallets, and that there were excellent players in both camps. I made a choice based on what my favorite player did, and stuck with that.

Now, back to steel guitar. If your favorite player is making lessons about technique, great! But if he isn't, you need to watch closely every time you see him. I don't give Skype lessons because you can't really see what someone is doing right or wrong over a video link. YouTube lessons are sometimes good for learning specific parts, but it's very hard to communicate the nuances of good technique via video.

And back to Bo's point, it's hard to trust a YouTube teacher for critical technique skills. I trust Joe Wright because I've watched him in real life, and I want to play like that. I trust Jeff Newman because I've watched him in real life, and I want to play like that. Ergo, I find their videos extremely valuable, worth their weight in gold.

I went looking for a YouTube video of Blue Jade recently. I learned more about how to play it by watching a long shot of Buddy than by watching a closeup phrase-by-phrase lesson from a teacher (I don't remember who it was). Quite frankly, the lesson was wrong from the get-go. YouTube is free so I can't really complain, and some guy is making an effort to share what he's learned. I won't criticize him for that.

Still, a lot of things on the internet are just wrong. How many of us have backed up a singing guitarist who got her chords wrong from the internet? It's a shame the way they've butchered so many good songs. The problem is so huge and viral that there's no way to stop one bad chord, or one wrong steel guitar phrase.

Just remember what Abraham Lincoln said, "Don't believe everything you see on the Internet."
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Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Bo Legg · Posted 17 Aug 2015 3:16 pm

I would never suggest you use my technique.
click here
click here

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

Stuart/Bo - These sorts of vague, oblique and ambiguous arguments about an indefinite someone or something say nothing at all. Tell us who you are talking about, cite some specific verifiable examples that clearly demonstrate and support your assertion.

Mike Wilkerson · From: Luther Oklahoma

I have been playing since age 14 however i do not know everything there is to know about playing a steel guitar.With that being said out of all the on line instruction I.E. Youtube And Skype Mickey Adams hands down has the best instruction. I understand his videos and have no trouble what so ever in what he is teaching. I am always picking up something out of his lessons and come away knowing I have got out of a rut. Instead of being negative towards those people think of the time they invest to make that video and preperation that is involved. Slim
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