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Topic: Emmons Push Pull help |
Ron Sodos
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 10:10 am |
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I just bought a 68 PP that was refurbished by Bryan Adams. I don't even have the steel yet. I have always owned all pull, Sho-Bud, Zum and Fessy. I just love the tone I hear everytime I hear a PP played. So I bought it. The only thing is I use a different tuning that I learned from Terry Bethel. I will keep the standard Emmons tuning until I can find someone that is an expert on making changes. I wouldn't dare trying myself. LOL
So who is the recommended tech for PP since Bryan Adams died a few years ago. Also I just realized I no longer can get split pedals which isn't all that big a deal. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 10:58 am
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In no particular order, these guys come to mind:
Tommy Cass
Billy Knowles
Lynn Stafford
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Jeff Garden
From:
Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 11:08 am
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I have personal experience dealing with Lynn Stafford and Tommy Cass. Both do outstanding work on P/P's and are great guys.
Lynn Stafford is at Steel Guitar West in Damascus, OR (near Portland)
http://steelguitarwest.com/
Tommy Cass is in Baldwinville, MA. Here's a recent post of his where you could click on PM or email to contact him
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=286023&highlight=
You can also add Mike Cass (no relation to Tommy)to the list of P/P experts. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 12:14 pm
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Oops: It was actually Mike Cass that I meant. I didn't realize there were two Cass boys.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Jeff Garden
From:
Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 12:53 pm
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Jim Palenscar in Oceanside CA. is my vote.
JE:-)>
_________________
Emmons D10PP 8/4 -75'
Emmons S-10PP 3/4 - 79'
Emmons S-12PP 3/4 -78'
MSA Legend SD12 5/5 -06'
Mullen S-12 4/5 - 1986
Nashville 112 x2 W/Knob Guards - Don't leave home with out one!
Walker SS rack system - 12"BW's
Quilter Steelaire Combo |
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john widgren
From:
Wilton CT
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 5:31 pm pp
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I'll be in Tesuque the last two weeks of Sept...
JW
_________________
Steel Guitar Services:
Live performance and recording. Instruments, repairs and lessons. Fresh bait/discount sushi.
(203) 858-8498
widcj@hotmail.com |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 8:12 pm
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| Quote: |
| just realized I no longer can get split pedals which isn't all that big a deal. |
I think you meant split tuning? Since Brian did the rebuild. It may already have the 6th string tune-able split. Haven't seen your undercarriage. But he set a lot of them up for that.
Everyone mentioned thus far has an excellent reputation.If the guitar's still in NC? I would favor Billy Knowles as he lives fairly close to it. Or you may want to play it-hear it, before you go to the expense of changing it to a less popular set-up. Someone once said. All PP's sound good. But some do sound much better than others. I don't know Terry's set-up. Maybe it's very popular.
Just food for thought. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 30 Jul 2015 9:22 pm
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| Bobby Boggs wrote: |
| ...It may already have the 6th string tune-able split... |
Interesting, could you elaborate on how is this accomplished on a PP? |
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Ron Sodos
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2015 1:30 pm tuning
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My tuning is a hybrid Jimmy Crawford tuning. 2nd string is D with a raise to D# (in LL) and a lower to Db (LR) I also raise 1st string F# to G# on (out LL). I also lower the 6th string G# down to F# on (LR) and lower my 5th string to Bb on the (LV) lower my 9th string to D# (somewhere I forgot) LOL This is all I can remember not sitting in front of the steel.
I am not sure what I will be able to retain with the new guitar. I will probably wait for a while and play it with what it already has. Once I get used to it and figure who and where to take it I will make some changes. Fortunately from the pictures I see it has 2 knees going (LL) one going up and 1 going (LR) plus right and left on the right leg. So it has all the knees i have now on both of my guitars. I am so gassed that Bryan Adams was the one that refurbished it. I am super excited. |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 31 Jul 2015 5:44 pm
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| Rick Price, Utpoia Texas. Jerry Roller, New Mexico. |
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Ron Sodos
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 8:42 am Danny
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I am curious why you say New Mexico for Jerry Roller. I live in NM and when I looked up Jerry Roller it says Arkansas
??? |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 1:08 pm
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I am an Arkie all the way!!!
Van Buren, Arkansas
However, thanks for mentioning me anyway. I have indeed rebuilt many push pull guitars. I learned from Bryan Adams who was a true master of the art.
Jerry
_________________
http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Drew Pierce
From:
Arkansas, USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 2:12 pm
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I can personally recommend Jerry Roller as a great PP mechanic. Van Buren is a 10+ hour drive from Albuquerque. But that's probably a closer, easier drive than most of the others mentioned. I'd want to be able to test drive the setup if possible, as shipping steels back and forth for setup tweaks is not desirable.
_________________
Drew Pierce
Emmons D10 Fatback, S10 bolt-on, Zum D10, Evans RE500, Hilton volume and delay pedals. |
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Tiny Olson
From:
Mohawk River Valley, Upstate NY
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 4:58 pm
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Hi Ron:
That's one very cool Emmons Original you purchased from Ruth. One of the "cooler" horns I've seen for sale in awhile. I wish you the best of luck with it. I was thinking about that guitar myself. It just looks like it's sitting there saying, "I sound good!!" It's the same vintage of Buddy's "Blade" so may have come from the same stock of wood and Rosewood Mica Glass. That's cool.!
I agree with Bobby Boggs in that it may already have the E9th, 6th string, tunable-split type "trick" setup as it was a Bryan Adams worked guitar. I know too that John Widgren, who will be in Arizona as he stated, can install this change and knows the works of push-pulls well.
Let us know how it does for you after you've had a chance to stretch her legs.
Chris "Tiny" O. |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 5:22 pm
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| Sorry Jerry. One of those senior moments that are coming much too often lately. Trying to work to 70 and seems as if I am working harder than any time in my life. Anyway, we got the information passed on. |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 5:32 pm
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No problem at all Danny. At age 76 I know exactly what you mean. I appreciate the mention. All those guys who have been named are great on push pull guitars.
Jerry
_________________
http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 8:27 pm
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| Tiny Olson wrote: |
| ...the E9th, 6th string, tunable-split type "trick" setup... |
I'm still wondering about how this is accomplished. Does anyone care to share (or is a secret)?  |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 4 Aug 2015 4:14 am
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Richard Burton has a workaround for a tunable G on 6,but it's not a proper split.
He put a 6th string raise bellcrank on the A pedal, limiting the slack on the raise rod so it will only lower to G
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tommy Detamore
From:
Floresville, Texas
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Posted 4 Aug 2015 4:40 am
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| Quote: |
| I agree with Bobby Boggs in that it may already have the E9th, 6th string, tunable-split type "trick" setup as it was a Bryan Adams worked guitar. |
In looking at the pix of the undercarraige it appears that it does..
I just ordered some parts so I can try this on my PP 
_________________
Tommy Detamore
Quilter Labs, Goodrich Sound, Source Audio, Neunaber Audio, and Stringjoy Authorized Dealer
www.cherryridgestudio.com
www.steelguitartracksonline.com |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Tommy Detamore
From:
Floresville, Texas
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Posted 4 Aug 2015 7:30 am
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Yes indeed Jim, good call.
On this same topic, I had saved the text from another post of Carl's I got from somewhere:
Put the G# to F# lower on RKL. Then install, on the A pedal, a bellcrank in line with the 6th string. Install in this bellcrank an Emmons type "half-tone tuner". Then put a raise rod (with collar), in this tuner. Attach the other end to the "raise" finger of the 6th string.
Now engage the A pedal and the knee lever lowering the 6th string from a G# to an F#. And reach under the guitar and tune this half tone tuner to keep the 6th string from going below a G note.
While it will not permit the split to G creating an open E minor chord, it DOES allow a G note if the A pedal is down.
_________________
Tommy Detamore
Quilter Labs, Goodrich Sound, Source Audio, Neunaber Audio, and Stringjoy Authorized Dealer
www.cherryridgestudio.com
www.steelguitartracksonline.com |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 4 Aug 2015 11:27 am
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Thanks all, I was aware of this workaround which is not actually a split of the B pedal. I heard "split" and thought maybe there was some other ingenious way that I hadn't heard about.
I don't have much use for the extra F# note on 6, I just want the G note that would normally result from a proper split, so I think I will try the much less complicated way with just a normal 1/2 step lower to G on 6 and half step raise to A on 3 on the knee. Should give the same result as the workaround (for the no-B-pedal G note on 6 anyway) but keep the A note on 3 like the normal split on my all-pull guitars. Would have less slack required on 6, and tunable at the endplate too. Has anyone tried this? Is there something I'm missing here?
Sorry for the thread hijack/tangent Ron, but maybe it's relevant to you too |
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Ron Sodos
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 4 Aug 2015 12:41 pm regarding split lower
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| Quote: |
In looking at the pix of the undercarraige it appears that it does..
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I am so new to Push Pulls, I am not sure what Tommy Detamore sees that shows it has the split tuning lower to G. But I use it all the time on my all pull guitars. I learned from Terry Bethel and if you listen to his playing it is so gorgeous how he uses the split tuning. I love it. I am hopeful I can do some of that with my new Emmons. I am a little nervous about having it altered. Some of the guys are telling me to leave it as is. I spoke with Jim Palenscar and he said he can make the changes for me. But my tuning is a little weird with second string at D natural with raises and lowers. Also the guitar is currently with the E raises and lowers on the left knee and I have had them on the right knee since day one in 1978. Some guys tell me it is easy to rethink and learn a whole new tuning. I don't think I am that flexible. LOL I really do welcom opinions and feedback from you guys. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 4 Aug 2015 1:28 pm Re: regarding split lower
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| Ron Sodos wrote: |
| ...Some guys tell me it is easy to rethink and learn a whole new tuning... |
Much easier (and more time efficient) to change the copedent methinks. If it already has the right number of pedals and levers for your setup and in the right locations, any changes you want to make are completely non-destructive. You may need to add a new rod or bellcrank here or there but nothing that will alter the guitar's integrity. Most of your changes will simply involve relocating rods and bellcranks. Still a potentially time consuming job but, it's mostly just time and patience.
The push-pull mechanism is really pretty simple and quite elegant to me, it just takes a little extra finagling to get the timing and slack right, particularly on the strings with both raises and lowers. The biggest limitation is no (true) splits. Other than that, set it up as you like it.
| Ron Sodos wrote: |
| ...I am not sure what Tommy Detamore sees that shows it has the split tuning lower to G... |
It's the extra rod on the A pedal for string 6, this is the raise-side limiting rod, when the A pedal is engaged it limits the throw of the knee lever (RKL2) lower to 1/2 step.
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