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Topic: Lightest pedal steel |
James Winwood
From:
New York, New York
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Posted 3 Aug 2004 1:42 pm |
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What is the lightest, smallest, most compact, portable pedal steel on the market? What manufactures would be open to custom building such a guitar?
s-10 or more with no pad or like extensions.[This message was edited by James Winwood on 03 August 2004 at 03:05 PM.] |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 3 Aug 2004 2:56 pm
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Its gonna be a keyless steel. Chuck Cambell's Excel will fit in an overhead bin on a plane. Chuck's guitar is a 12 string with about 40 pedals and levers on it. Super compact. The new Williams keyless can fit in a tenor sax bag. I've seen some compact Lamar steels also.
You might want to check out the new MSA steels. They are not as compact as the keyless but are as light as they can be.
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Bob
intonation help
[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 03 August 2004 at 04:02 PM.] |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 3 Aug 2004 2:57 pm
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I've concidered commisioning an S8U, Keyless (I was thinking Williams).
I recently took delivery of a Sho-Bud Pro-1 S10U 7x5, and it is pretty light for a keyed guitar (Custom conversion by Jeff and Duane at Marrs Music).
Now that I have a Fender 400 (4x0) to try out the 8 string factor, I'm even more inclined to make the S8U idea a reality someday (for the small/compact/light/fun/cool factors).
I've seen a Lamar single neck Keyless at the St.Louis show that appeared to be the smallest lightest guitar I had ever seen.
I saw an S12U Excell that was pretty small and light also (the black one at the St.Louis show).
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James Lutz
From:
Wisconsin
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Posted 3 Aug 2004 3:00 pm
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I worked with a feller a couple times that played a Lone Star Steel - single 10 keyless, no pad. All wood and light as a feather.
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It's a great big world out there, might as well make room for everybody... |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 3 Aug 2004 4:20 pm
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I play an Excel single wide keyless U-12 w/8+9 and it weighs only 38 lbs. Life sure got easy when I got that guitar. Sounds amazing w/a Jerry Wallace TT.
-MJ- |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Aug 2004 5:02 pm
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The lightest steels available today weigh in around 25-30 pounds, and I don't think you'd want one much lighter than that. I also once saw (and played) a custom-made pedal steel that was very small (a 22" scale), but the sound was far from desirable.
So, exactly what is it you want? I'm sure pedal steels could be made lighter and smaller than those available now, but there's a price to pay! No, I'm not only talking about money, but the practicality and stability of the instrument. Suppose we could make a 10-15 pound pedal steel? While it sure would be easy to carry around and put in that luggage compartment, it would probably also be wobbly, fragile, and consequently difficult to tune and play. Ever try to saw a piece of wood, or drive a nail, on something like a card-table?  That's what it might be like. I'm positively sure that the under-15 pound mark (out of the case) could be reached on an S10 3+5. But...I'm not sure you would like the end product, once you had it.
I'm not trying to discourage you in your quest, but merely alerting you to all the aspects of this "ultra lightweight" approach before you spend a few thousand dollars! |
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Richard Gonzales
From:
Davidson, NC USA
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Posted 3 Aug 2004 5:21 pm
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| My MSA Millennium S12 8/5 is 19lb ! [This message was edited by Richard Gonzales on 03 August 2004 at 06:22 PM.] |
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ebb
From:
nj
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 3 Aug 2004 5:53 pm
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| Don't know if they're still made but the SGI that Scotty used to sell (made in Japan) has GOT to be the lightest I've ever seen anywhere. |
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Jackie Anderson
From:
Scarborough, ME
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Posted 3 Aug 2004 6:02 pm
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It's hard to imagine anything much smaller than the S10 Williams (5+5) that I bought from Al Marcus, and I really don't think I would want anything lighter -- as it is, it tends to scoot away when I hit LKL -- but the CASE could be a lot lighter. That becomes a pretty significant factor in the all-in travelling size and weight.
P.S. I can hardly believe the price at which you are willing to part with your Williams S-10 on Buy and Sell -- someone is going to get a real "steal."[This message was edited by Jack Anderson on 03 August 2004 at 07:06 PM.] |
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Steve Alcott
From:
New York, New York, USA
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Posted 3 Aug 2004 10:46 pm
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I play a Williams keyless S-10.To cure the "creeps",I replaced the bottom part of the front legs with bass drum spurs-essentially spikes.Just don't hit RKR too hard.
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 4 Aug 2004 3:31 am
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| Keyless GFI's are compact and light. |
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Jackie Anderson
From:
Scarborough, ME
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Posted 4 Aug 2004 4:46 am
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| When playing on slick surfaces like concrete or linoleum (where the spur trick wouldn't work)or wood (where I would be fined and/or hung for damaging the floor), I lay down a piece of the sticky web stuff used on shelves. It helps with LKL creep, and it really keeps the volume pedal in place. |
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DIETMAR WAECHTLER
From:
RAUNHEIM,GERMANY
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Posted 4 Aug 2004 5:27 am
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Jim Cohen is right, the SGI (2. Generation)that Scotty used to sell (made in Japan bei Fuzzy/Exel) is very lightweight with a great action. After I installed the E66 Pickup, the Ton is like my double 10, no big differenz. I love this small, light babe...I'm looking for a SGI D-10 but only 2. Generation with a woodneck on top..
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 4 Aug 2004 6:59 am
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I used to play a pedal steel (I can't remember the name at the moment, old timers disease, you know) that was soooooooo light that I had to carry a cement block with me to hold it down or it would float away. Is this what you're looking for?!?!  [This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 04 August 2004 at 08:01 AM.] |
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Bill Findlay
From:
Baytown, Texas, USA
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Posted 4 Aug 2004 10:06 am
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My MSA Millennium SD10 is 22#..The case I use with it is 17#....The MSA plays very smothly, has a great tone and is a very nice looking PSG.
This is probaly about as lite as a PSG could be and not have the creep problem. |
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James Winwood
From:
New York, New York
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Posted 4 Aug 2004 12:05 pm
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I was asked what I want so I'll tell you. I can't get the tone I want out of the curent (or classic) pedal steel design. I've had eight. I'm not talkin E9 country here. I've haven't heard a single person yet get the tone I'm looking for out of a pedal steel. A good lap steel simply blows them apart. But you throw away all the chords, clusters, and so much harmony at the bar with the lap steel it makes my brain hurt. This is a glaring problem in my steel guitar world. If you don't think or hear like this, consider yourself lucky. And this is all on TOP of the weight issue. The weight issue ( original reason for post) is about having a guitar I can travel around the city with all day, on a daily basis, realistically. This means in a gigbag, on my back. (I know, lapsteel, but I already told you...) I realize no current steel will be my last, or in no way ultimate steel guitar. It's possibly just for function for the nearer future. I could talk a lot more about this but I'll chill for now.
I really appreciate all the responses ideas, and comments so far.
[This message was edited by James Winwood on 04 August 2004 at 02:09 PM.] |
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Jackie Anderson
From:
Scarborough, ME
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Posted 4 Aug 2004 7:32 pm
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| You may just need to start with any of the above-mentioned pedal guitars, and then get yourself a Rickandlollar pickup for it.... |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2004 9:55 am
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James,
Please, please understand that what I am about to say is sincerely respectful.
You are wanting something that ONLY in heaven can you achieve. I base this on reading your last post very carefully, line by line. The PSG does not exist that is going to fulfill all you wish.
Let me digress. There is no steel guitar player on this planet that has tried harder to come up with the ultimate pedal steel guitar than I have. I feel confident, some on this forum will attest to this. I imagine there are some probably grudgingly In at least one case I KNOW It!
But I can assure you, like everything else in life, there will always be trade-offs. Again, ONLY in heaven will this satan induced cancer not rear its ugly head.
If you wish to play a PSG, and you want all the things you have indicated, I can only say, it ain't gunna happin bubba  You are going to have to give up sunthun to get sunthun else.
May Jesus bless you in your quests,
carl |
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James Winwood
From:
New York, New York
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Posted 8 Aug 2004 9:49 am
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| I'm just trying to stir the stew a little bit here. I say things that I'd like to hear and read about but never do. This instrument kills in the jazz/fusion/rock/whatever vein but you never would know it because nobody plays it there, or I certainly don't hear it enough. The effective way to improve yourself and expand concepts, for me, is to play in an improvisational environment frequently. Hence, the light as possible guitar. [This message was edited by James Winwood on 08 August 2004 at 04:37 PM.] |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 8 Aug 2004 10:07 am
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James-Good idea. Anything that will help promote the pedal steel in new ways to play is always appreciated.......al
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Doug Seymour
From:
Jamestown NY USA (deceased)
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Posted 8 Aug 2004 5:02 pm
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| My Excel S10 is 3 & 5 (keyless) & weighs 25lbs, set up ready to play. (case 12lbs) It has a Bill Lawrence pickup & I have no problem with the sound quality, nor movement at all when using the knees. Maybe as good as it gets. The Superb model is the better guitar in my opinion. I haven't seen one, nor played one, but the design seems better to me from the website pictures. [This message was edited by Doug Seymour on 09 August 2004 at 04:39 AM.] |
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Rich Currier
From:
Woodland Park, CO USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2004 5:45 pm
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Got to be the MSA D12 I just picked up.....
Wait... I thought you meant heaviest steel ever... Nevermind...
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2004 6:30 pm
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I have been receiving a ton of email (along with hate mails of late), concerning the Excel PSG's.
Lest there be confusion. There are basically two designs of Excel PSG's. One is the line they have carried for many years. It is a vanilla, and IMO, a very esthetically appealing PSG. I know almost nothing else about it.
In the fall of '97, Excel brought a prototype Excel to Bill Stafford at the ISGC. It was dubbed "Superb". Bill called me over to look at it. And I went nuts over its changer and several other things.
The changer in it is unique. Only one other changer I know of in the world works like it. And that is the Anapeg made in Australia. In a word, instead of the changer finger bending the strings back and forth, (to change pitch), the Excel Superb model changer pulls and relaxes the string in an almost straight line.
Thus there is simply NO string breakage at the changer; as is typical of the way 99% of all PSG break strings. This is due to that point being the most acute place in the bending cycle. I wanted to see just how long a .011 would last. I finally changed it 3 and 1/2 yrs after I received it, because I simply got tired of waiting for it or any other string to break.
As far as I know, no Superb model has broken a string to date. But I am not 100% sure about this.
Because of this; PLUS the fact that all Superb's are keyless (as far as I know), they can have a much longer scale. So sustain is improved; and since keyless guitars tend to have less sustain than comparable keyed PSG's, IMO, a player has the best of all worlds. Presently the scale is 25 and 1/2 inches.
IE, a keyless PSG mimicking the sustain of a keyed PSG with NO string breakage.
All Emmons' are 24 and 1/4".
So for anyone who might be considering an Excel, you might wish to keep the above in mind. To be totally objective, which is always my goal, I do NOT care for the hexagonal crossrods, the bellcranks OR the shape and size of the knee levers.
But then I have been accused of caring more about the underside of a guitar more than the top side many times, so this should be of little concern to most of you.
A Better Way
carl |
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