| Author |
Topic: PSG. It's a machine |
Bo Legg
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 6:00 am |
|
I ran acrose this in Stuart's notes. I thought it was pretty profound and worth sharing.
Stuart Legg
"Learning to play Steel?
Hate to burst your bubble but you’re nothing more or less than a machine operator.
Some operators have developed to the point that they can get almost everything they can produce within the limits of the machine.
You can know everything about your product but it will be of little use to you in operating the machine that produces the product.
You can develop into a great operator and produce great products without knowing anything about the product before or after it came out of the machine.
Seems logical that a person would want to read the operating manual of the machine to start with and expand their ability with practice and experimenting from there to become the best operator they can be.
Seems a person would at least study and learn as much he or she could about the product they wish to produce in order to create a product that a great deal of folks would appreciate.
The basic honest truth is the main reason you want to operate the machine in the first place is you want folks to praise you as the producer of a great product and buying the product from you is a perk.
The joke is, these great machine operators that claim they never read the book, wrote the book.
So don’t ever apologize for having a teacher and cracking the books about the machine and the product.
It’s a lot easier and faster than trying to reinvent the wheel on your own thru every step of your learning." |
|
|
 |
Tom Quinn
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 6:44 am
|
|
You could say that about any musical instrument, a baseball bat, a surgical suite, a SkilSaw. Pretty obvious...
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
|
|
|
chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 6:59 am
|
|
| wow. hey tom, before i saw your reply, that's exactly what i was thinking. |
|
|
|
Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 8:59 am
|
|
I'm all for reading the manual if you want to build on what others have already figured out. I think that's pretty clear, and probably what most people want to do.
What may not be quite so clear is that if you want to push off in a truly different direction, you may need to throw away some of the stuff from the manual. And that can sometimes be a bit hard to do once you have the manual ingrained. Not necessarily an argument to throw out the manual, but maybe to keep the mind's eye open to alternatives and sometimes be willing to set the manual aside.
And - um - of course, everybody that plays the game does operate the machine. But some end up as far more than "machine operators". What's the difference between a 'scientific-technician' and a 'scientist'? What's the difference between a 'musical-technician' and an 'artist'? Beats the hell outta me, but I think I know it when I see it. |
|
|
|
chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 9:06 am
|
|
do i play steel?
well, i'm an owner/operator! |
|
|
|
Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 9:21 am
|
|
| Yup, I'm an owner/operator too. And damned happy to be able to do it, especially as late as I started on steel. I was in the clutches of guitar for 30 years before I ever got one of these machines. |
|
|
|
Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 10:15 am
|
|
This thread reminds me of Jerry Byrd referring to pedal players as "pedal pushers". "Machine operator" is a more pleasant term.
I remember at Scotty's often becoming by the reliance of players using the A & B pedals (often during solos until the next idea comes along) in a machine-like fashion and sounding the same.
What makes a player unique is how they use the bar and that's where the emotion and personality comes from. Although rocking on to the A pedal with B pedal pressed is the classic or quintessential pedal steel sound and can sound emotional, it has it's limits.
I think it was Speedy West who said that he thought of pedals/knee levers as a way to change tunings.
Maybe the machinist's union should be accepting pedal players.
_________________
Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Sierra Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8: |
|
|
|
Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 11:32 am
|
|
As an owner, operator and modifier of such machines for a few decades, I did of course start by RTFM 
At various stages I have of course had to write small additions to the manual, because I modified the machine, and how to operate it, too much. As Lloyd Green said when I demoed my modified contraption for him a couple of decades ago: "No steel guitar in the world can do that, except yours."
He set the bar a bit high when he "demoed his machine" and "operating skills" at the same occasion, but although I can not "operate my machine" like him I sure can "operate it different." |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 12:15 pm
|
|
The picks and bar are part of the machine. The machine has no emotion.
Your emotion has little to do with it. You can laugh,cry,cuss or feel sad all you want while you are using the machine and it won't make any difference.
You must learn how to operate the machine in a way that simulates emotion.
I don't understand all this BS about your music comes from your emotion and runs out your fingers thru the steel and out to the amp. You have to learn how to operate your machine to get that product out of it. |
|
|
|
Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 12:53 pm
|
|
| Bo Legg wrote: |
| I don't understand all this BS about your music comes from your emotion and runs out your fingers thru the steel and out to the amp. You have to learn how to operate your machine to get that product out of it. |
The same can be said about a typewriter or computer keyboard ... amazing how much good stuff that is written on one of those contraptions, along with loads of not-so-good stuff
Must have something to do with brains and personalities, and similar BS  |
|
|
|
Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 1:49 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| I don't understand all this BS about your music comes from your emotion and runs out your fingers thru the steel and out to the amp. You have to learn how to operate your machine to get that product out of it. |
Hey, I think you're right on that, when writing about most of us. It sure doesn't run out my fingers thru the steel and out to the amp. I have to think about it and focus on knowledge and technique. I think for a living, and when I play music, I just want to feel it.
But for some players, I think it actually does just run out their fingers through the steel and into the amp. Once you woodshed hard for enough decades to really get into "the zone", it sort of does. I believe I have witnessed it personally.
I can only speak, for myself, on guitar, where there are times when I think it works like that for me. On steel, I have a helluvalot more work to do before I can ever get anywhere near there. Not sure I'll live that long, but I'm gonna try. For me, that is what playing music is about - getting to where I'm not thinking and my heart is directly connected to what's coming out of the instrument.
| Quote: |
| The same can be said about a typewriter or computer keyboard ... |
Yeah, man - Hemingway, Steinbeck, Joyce, Vonnegut, Breslin, Feynman, and on and on. Totally agreed. |
|
|
|
Carl Williams
From:
Oklahoma
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 2:36 pm Machine Operator vs Musical Equipment Owner?
|
|
| Bo and Dave...now that "Machine Operator" has been introduced to this thread it brings to mind another name I was accused of having. A few years ago I was in the music store where I had bought my very first pedal steel back in '74 and another customer asked if I was a "Musician?" I mulled over my answer and kindly responded; no sir but thanks for asking---I am a "Musical Equipment Owner." Musical Machine Operator has a nice "ring" to it...may have to start using it. On a more serious note, just like your 30 years of guitar playing Dave, it almost comes natural to you now and if/when we can ever reach this sort of "Self Actualization" with regards to whatever instrument we've chosen, it's very gratifying for sure. Thanks, Carl |
|
|
|
chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 3:45 pm
|
|
| i bet you could train a monkey to play a steel. |
|
|
|
Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 4:50 pm
|
|
Carl, on the guitar playing - it's well over 40 years, pushing more like 50 at this point. My first sight of a live electric guitar was in 1967, spying Michael Bloomfield playing at a hippie club (The Psychedelic Supermarket) in Kenmore Square, Boston with the Electric Flag. I was pretty young, high school, and he hung out after the gig to talk to people. Man was he hyper, but I was totally mesmerized. At that point, 6-7 years into classical piano, I was hooked on guitar from then on, and within days had an old Kawai violin-shaped solid-body electric guitar, a cheap, dirty tube amp, and a Coricidin bottle for slide sometimes. I still am an avid guitar player, but steel has sucked quite a bit of the oxygen out of that.
| Quote: |
| i bet you could train a monkey to play a steel |
.
Chris, I disagree. When you show me the serious bona fides of a monkey playing pedal steel like a reasonably competent pedal steel player, I'll believe you and fly to CA to take you out for drinks. In fact, I will probably have some cognitive scientists I work with in tow, I'm sure they'll want to know all about it. Hell, I could use a trip to the left coast anyway, it's been too long. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 5:28 pm Re: PSG. It's a machine
|
|
| Bo Legg wrote: |
I ran acrose this in Stuart's notes. I thought it was pretty profound and worth sharing.
Stuart Legg
"Learning to play Steel?
Hate to burst your bubble but you’re nothing more or less than a machine operator. |
Not hardly! The man defines the machine, not the other way around. Hand a paintbrush to a contractor, and about all he can do is paint window frames and walls. Hand a paintbrush to a true artist, and the result can be something on the order of Rembrandt or Picasso.
| Quote: |
| Some operators have developed to the point that they can get almost everything they can produce within the limits of the machine. |
Once again, the boundaries are set by the man, not the machine he's using, or even the machine that produces that machine. Some can make only firewood with an axe or a chainsaw, while others can make impressive furniture or sculptures.
| Quote: |
| The basic honest truth is the main reason you want to operate the machine in the first place is you want folks to praise you as the producer of a great product and buying the product from you is a perk. |
It may have been that way for some, but it wasn't for me.
| Quote: |
So don’t ever apologize for having a teacher and cracking the books about the machine and the product.
It’s a lot easier and faster than trying to reinvent the wheel on your own thru every step of your learning. |
Not everyone wants "easy and fast". Some just want to explore - and that's okay. Some want "different" and that's okay, too. Everyone does what they do. |
|
|
|
Tom Quinn
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 6:42 pm
|
|
| Bo Legg wrote: |
The picks and bar are part of the machine. The machine has no emotion.
Your emotion has little to do with it. You can laugh,cry,cuss or feel sad all you want while you are using the machine and it won't make any difference.
You must learn how to operate the machine in a way that simulates emotion.
I don't understand all this BS about your music comes from your emotion and runs out your fingers thru the steel and out to the amp. You have to learn how to operate your machine to get that product out of it. |
Of course you need chops, but if you think emotion has nothing to do with playing you need to find another hobby...
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
|
|
|
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 7:19 pm
|
|
One of the things I get told the most about my playing, is the emotion I put into my playing. I get some jobs because of it. I will tell you that it is an equal amount of my brain controlling my emotions, and transferring that emotion to my hands. But, there are also mechanical aspects to emotional playing. Just a couple examples are your vibrato, timing of pedal pulls (when, how fast or slow you activate or let off the pedal, bar pressure, etc). Sometimes the emotion comes out in my playing, somtimes not. A lot has to do with mood.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
|
|
|
Tom Quinn
|
Posted 25 Jul 2015 7:28 pm
|
|
What Richard said...
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
|
|
|
James Jacoby
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 26 Jul 2015 9:08 am
|
|
| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
| Yup, I'm an owner/operator too. And damned happy to be able to do it, especially as late as I started on steel. I was in the clutches of guitar for 30 years before I ever got one of these machines. |
Kind of sounds like my situation, Dave. A guitar player since age of 12. I always wanted to try steel, but I struggled just to own, and maintain my guitar stuff. I was over 50, before I could afford any kind of steel. When I got my first PSG,(a ShoBud student model with three pedals, and one lever, I was hooked! Of course I needed more pedals, and levers, very soon after. I wanted to sound like my steel heroes(Mooney, and Brumley), but being too old, and running out of time, I concentrated on technique,and sound, and virtually skipped most of the other stuff(like learning TAB, and taking lessons, etc.) I can't explain how I play, which padals, levers, strings, and so on, but I'm very happy with how I sound. Since I really don't know how I'm making the sounds, I'm creating, I have to think, what comes out of my amp, IS flowing from my mind, through my fingers, foot, and leg movements, and converting my emotions to sound. If I live long enough,(which doesn't seem likely) I may someday learn "the other stuff" I'd rather sound like I want, than use up my precious time learning how to explain how I do it! Like you, Dave, I still play lead guitar, and also six string Bass. I play in two, sometimes four different bands. I'm 76, and running out of time, but I thoroughly enjoy ALL my music, and have no regrets, about how I've done it! -Jake- |
|
|
|
Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
|
Posted 26 Jul 2015 9:57 am
|
|
Has anyone even noticed that this and a couple of other recent threads are actually just Stuart trolling through Bo's account? Or maybe they are the same person. Always a lively conversation either way. Whether or not it is useful is open to interpretation, but I know, I should go someplace else.
I think I'll just go and mindlessly operate some inert piece of machinery for no particular good reason. At least now I know I will get an email alert from the forum when Stu finally discovers and posts a cogent explanation of the meaning of life. I still believe in gravity and stuff; gravity is what holds the bar on the strings and the git on the floor, but I'm losing faith in the whole "42" concept, need help... Stu? |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 26 Jul 2015 11:33 am
|
|
If you don't find this topic interesting I then have failed,
Last edited by Bo Legg on 26 Jul 2015 11:51 am; edited 4 times in total |
|
|
|
Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
|
Posted 26 Jul 2015 11:38 am
|
|
| Ian Worley wrote: |
Has anyone even noticed that this and a couple of other recent threads are actually just Stuart trolling through Bo's account?
|
You noticed that, too? Sorta like "Seinfeld." Not really about anything, but people were glued to the TV for a half-hour. Tom Quinn got it about right. Everything is a machine. Including us. Your heart is a machine. Your emotions? Not a machine---undefined.
So who wants to go home after a gig feeling like he operated a machine pretty good? |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 26 Jul 2015 12:20 pm
|
|
Yes I go home every night after a gig and say I didn't operate my machine well, but I also say my composition was good I just from lack of practice was not able to convey that with my PSG.
Naturally here on the Forum it's all about the machine.
It should be about the music as well.
Music conveys mood far, far better than words ever could with just the subtle change in choice of note.
Example the C major triad C G E feels happy but Cm triad feels sad C G and Eb.
The E is 659 vibrations and the Eb is 622 vibration. So human happiness or sadness is only a matter of 37 vibrations.
If you are a good composer and have learned to operate the PSG well enough to convey your composition and mood, that’s as good as it gets.
The lack of either ability as a steel player is well simply put, failure.
But don't quit! I‘m living proof you can be a failure and play all you want and make money at it. |
|
|
|
chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
|
Posted 26 Jul 2015 1:35 pm
|
|
good one, ian. an interesting premise, not disputed by 'bo'.
kind of sounds as if it could actually come from someone who doesn't play steel. |
|
|
|
chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
|
Posted 26 Jul 2015 2:14 pm
|
|
| and considering that bo would post whatever he felt, 'consequences be damned', it's odd to see a post edited 4 times! |
|
|
|
