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Topic: What's it like to play a push-pull? |
Burton Lee
From:
Denton, Texas, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 11:33 am |
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Okay, super novice question:
I've only played my MCI all-pull. I understand the mechanical difference in a push-pull, and I've heard the legend of the tone, but what difference would I notice if I sat down behind an Emmons push-pull? I'm curious, but not $2000 curious, and I don't know anybody who has one.
Also, what is the mechanical disadvantage of the push-pull system? Why is the all-pull system superior?
Thanks!
Burton Lee
Denton, TX
MCI D-10, Session 500, Nashville 400
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 11:46 am
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The mechanical disadvantage is the excess movement of a pedal/lever that raises a string, if that string is also lowered, eg the C pedal: 4th string is raised a tone, and lowered a half tone on a knee lever.
There is also a lot of mechanical noise from the undercarriage, caused by the inherent design of a PP. Another advantage of an all pull is that it can do split tunings.
R B |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 12:12 pm
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When you push a pedal or knee lever on a PP......Ya have to mean it!
JE:-)))>
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Emmons D10 8/4 P/P -75'
Fessenden SD-10 3/5
MSA SD-12 4/4 - 76'
76'Session 400
86'Nashville 400
Bandit 112
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 1:01 pm
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Burton, a push pull can be set up to play very good but most have not been adjusted in several years or have been worked on by someone who does not understand or know how to work on them so most of them do not play nearly as well as they were designed to.
Jerry |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 1:28 pm
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| ditto Jerry |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 1:53 pm
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Ditto, Ditto Jerry!
My Emmons p/p S12 "uni" and D10 guitars have superb action to go along with the tone. There is hardly any difference between the feel of my Emmons p/p guitars and my Sierra. All of 'em have a smooth feel. The slightly longer throw on p/p raises allows for "expression". However, my Sierra has the flexibilty of adjusting for pedal feel and throw. So, it's possible to make them very similar. Not surprising, since they're all well designed and conceived instruments.
There are a few techs (read that wizzards) that know how to make a push/pull play about as smooth as an all pull guitar. Jerry's one of them. Bobby Bowman is my "wizzard" of choice. (Thanks again, Bobby).
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 2:12 pm
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Back when I had my Emmons U-12, I had it set up to where I could play it bar'- footed. And the undercarriage was as quiet as could be.
My one and only complaint was the fact that changing pulls and pushes was a real, time-consuming pain in the arse.
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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 2:12 pm
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When you lower your Es with a lever, the lever that raises the Es also moves. If, like me you have these levers on different kness you have to be careful. The raise lever cancels out the lower lever.
I agree that they can be setup it play smooth, I can play in socks, but don't.
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Daniel J. Cormier
From:
Lake Charles, LA, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 2:13 pm
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Dude if you have a good MCI your not that far off in the tone area.MCI guitars were designed to sound as close to a push pull as anyone else has ever gotten.Even the Le Grande All Pull models don't have the tone the MCI/EMCI guitars had. I went 6 years with out one before finding another one.
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Daniel J. Cormier
MCI D-10 , Peavey Sessions 500 & 400 Limited ,Nashville 400
http://www.cajunsteelguitar.com email at djcormier@cox-internet.com
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 2:14 pm
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When you lower your Es with a lever, the lever that raises the Es also moves. If, like me, you have these levers on different knees you have to be careful. The raise lever cancels out the lower lever.
I agree that they can be setup it play smooth, I can play in socks, but don't. |
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Cal Sharp
From:
the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 3:03 pm
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It's like drinking whiskey straight, smoking English pipe tobacco, cruising down the highway in a '57 Chevy or on a Panhead...
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Cal's Corral
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 7:33 pm
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and a question "what does it feel to play a brand spanking NEW push pull?" I can answer ,come and try it.
if there is anyone interested in trying this new push pull Promat guitar ,let me know.
DB |
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Marco Schouten
From:
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 9:43 pm
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Damir,
I'm a bit out of the way,
but can you describe how it plays compared to other brands?
We want a full review.
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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud LLG; Guyatone 6 string lap steel; John Pearse bar; Emmons bar; Evans SE200 amp
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Rick Johnson
From:
Wheelwright, Ky USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 3:40 am
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My push/pull is a wooden neck lacquer'75 D-10 8&7.
I have played other push/pull's and all pull's both with metal and wooden
necks, with my amp, looking for a
good tone comparison. There is a difference.
Different is not wrong its just different.
I could get use to playing any of those
guitars. My push/pull is quiet and hardly
ever have to tune it unless I change
string guages. String breakage is normal.
Cabinet drop is minimal.
Overall its very smooth and sounds more
mellow than other guitars I've played
over the years.
I guess its like my old recliner, its
fits me perfectly.
I know some guys that have have owned
over a five year period more than 5 guitars and use hundreds of
dollars of processors..etc. searching
for that "tone". Some never learn that
its a combination of things beginning
with a good guitar.
I have mine old Emmons with a Nashville
400 and a RV-3 pedal, thats all I need.
Again, this is just my opinion.
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Rick Johnson
[This message was edited by Rick Johnson on 25 June 2004 at 04:42 AM.] |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 4:30 am
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| I have a push-pull S-10 from the early 70's and a Sho-Bud Pro II from the same era. Both recently set up by Steel Guitar Nashville. To me, playing the Sho-Bud is like driving a big ol' Cadillac. The Emmons is more like a sports car, a little tougher to drive but more precise. |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 7:42 am
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Rick,
I had a wooden neck on an S-10 Emmoons....The tone was really hard to beat ....It had that Emmon's "tone" but was just a hint mellower....Very sweet sounding steel , and very expressive ....
You're D-10 must be a honey !!....Jim
I don't think that I have played or felt, or heard any pedal steel that I have experienced that gave me the same feeling as a P/P Emmon's ....They truely are a pedal steel like no other, and a benchmark that many pedal steel's are compared to ....The mechanic's can be tricky if not set up properly, but once set up , the tone is the big payoff !!....If it weren't for that fabulous tone, I don't think that anybody would even bother with the mechanic's !!...NOTHING sounds , or feel's like a P/P in my book !!....Again, this is one man's opinion ....Jim[This message was edited by James Quackenbush on 25 June 2004 at 08:43 AM.] |
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Pat Burns
From:
Branchville, N.J. USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 9:25 am
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| Quote: |
| what difference would I notice if I sat down behind an Emmons push-pull? |
..let's see if I can illustrate the difference...
All Pull = 
Emmons Push/Pull =  |
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 10:38 am
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Hey !!!! that clinches it for me!! push/pull is where its at! and can you send those four beautiful babes over to the uk, we got the p/p`s but could sure use some of that other stuff!!!!  |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 11:18 am
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Pat Burns, you are still the funniest, most hilarious nut on the forum! However, you not only have a great ear for tone, but a great "EYE" also.
Mr. Kipperlips Rubbermaid
P.S.
The push pull is heaven and the greatest guitar in the world for those that can hear and appreciate great tone, pure hell for those that don't and can't!
Quoted by Will Rogers, 1936,
(quit kidden' around Wily, put the patch over the correct eye!) [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 25 June 2004 at 12:19 PM.] |
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Pat Burns
From:
Branchville, N.J. USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 11:48 am
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...  had to think about that one for a second, Bobbe!... |
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Frank Estes
From:
Huntsville, AL
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 4:37 pm
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Burton spend the $2000 and enjoy life like you were meant to. Doug Jones has a PP for sale here on the forum that would do you right.
Larry Behm |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 5:44 pm
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Marco,
Promat plays like a new push pull.Tight ,smooth and nice.I don`t wont to talk about the tone,enough was said already,just that I never played guitar that sounded better.If you know what `66 Emmons push pull sounds,well ,Promat sounds better.Gentleman from Swiss ordered a SD-10 and also Mr.Gary Sill has a D-10 on order.I also just payed my downpayment for my second D-10 Promat.We tried this guitar at Bobbes on 112 Peavey,I`m scared to think what would this instrument sound like on 6-14 Webb.
DB
ps
push pull- big,heavy,complicated and it has a tone to die for...  |
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Pat Burns
From:
Branchville, N.J. USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 6:00 pm
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..Damir, if you don't mind me asking, what's the ballpark price range on the Promat, including shipping?..
..and then of course, the next logical question is, how long is the waiting period for a new one?.. |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 8:33 pm
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Pat,
you should be able to order your Promat thru Steel Guitar Nashville.Just call Bobbe.
DB |
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