E9th on C6th..... or C6th on E9th...?

Bob Tuttle · From: Republic, MO 65738

If you were limited to one neck and one tuning, would it be easier to get the E9th commercial sounds on a C6th tuning, or get the C6th swing and jazz sounds on the E9th?
This would not be limited to a standard E9th or C6th setup. The tuning could be altered slightly, or more or less pedals & levers used. (I just thought this seemed like an interesting subject for discussion)

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I always play both on one neck. That's what the E9/B6 universal tuning is all about. I would never compromise the flexibility it offers by playing either 10-string tuning. But that's just me.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 11 July 2004 at 05:58 PM.]

Tony Dingus · From: Kingsport, Tennessee, USA

Get Randy Beavers new CD. He plays C6 on the E9 and/or get Buddy Emmons E9 Expo, he plays alot of C6 on the E9 as well, plus he has tab to every song.
In a interview with Buddy, he said if the tuning police told him he could only play one tuning he said it would be the E9. Paul Franklins pedabro intro and turnaround on Randy Travis's "Forever and Ever Amen" was C6 and it sounded like D9. So many roads to choose. Along with Larry , Jr Knight and Reece Anderson play universals.
Tony

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Thanks for putting me in such illustrious company, Tony.

Other guys you might have heard of who play universal of that same variety (the E9/B6 or Eb9/Bb6 or vice versa, depending on the open tuning) are the Wright Bros., Joe and David, and the late, great Jeff Newman (among many others).

It's just a tuning. It's not the best; it's not the worst; but it IS very powerful -- like extending E9 down below 'guitar E' AND adding all (and I mean ALL) the equivalent C6 changes, relative to the B6 open tuning. I've heard Paul Franklin, Mike Johnson, Randy Beavers, and Buddy Emmons for that matter, playing some dynamite stuff that you'd normally expect on C6 on the top neck, but that approach is limited to the range of E9 and I'd prefer the big notes on the bottom.

Bottom line for me: I respect those guys for knowing (or learning) their guitars well enough to find those closely voiced chords and harmonies on E9.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I think it's easier to get C6th parts on E9th than vice versa. Until you need the low notes, that is.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I am with b0b on this one.

carl

Randy Beavers · From: Lebanon,TN 37090

If I had to choose one it would be E9th.

A violin only has 4 strings. It doesn't make any difference to them if the song is bluegrass, classical, rock, or pop. The tuning is the same, only the style or attitude changes. My point being, both tunings are capable of more. Only what we perceive them as limits us.

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Randy
http://hometown.aol.com/pulltightb/home.html

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

E9 for me, too, though if the Tuning Police took my C6 away, I'd consider an extra couple of low strings. Not essential, though - Randy makes a powerful argument for E9 just as it is.

Come to think of it, Randy IS a powerful argument for E9.....

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I hate to admit that I'm having a senior moment and can't remember his name but I think the guy is a hall of famer. Anyway, a couple of years ago while at Scotty's I was walking down the hall past one of the steel manufacturer rooms, I think it was Derby, and I heard this great C6th playing. I went in and there was this older guy sitting behing one of the pedal steels playing on a 10 string lapsteel. The next song he did was "Sweet Memories" which sounded like the most beautiful crying E9th stuff you'd ever heard. This guy was doing it all with bar slants and pulls on a C6th lapsteel. I think you can do anything with either tuning as long as you have the talent. I'm still bummed that I can't remember this guy's name as he's a world class player and did a lot of work for some big name artists years ago and does a slot on Scotty's show on a regular basis. Also at a Jeff Newman seminar I attended in '78 ol' Jeff showed us how to do some C6th stuff on E9th which was pretty impressive. In another situation on the old Nashville Network there was a half hour TV show starring Hank Thompson one week which had Hal Rugg on steel. Hal did the whole show on the E9th and most of it was Western Swing but he nailed it. Have a good 'un........JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Bob Strum · From: Anniston Alabama

I'll bet a cup of coffee it was Billy Robinson. He is an experience to behold!! AND, he is a great artist, ie painter!
Enjoy him you all. Bob Strum

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Uhhhmmm..Tuning Police..is that the same as the In Tune Police ?

Good thing they didn't arrive where I was playing Sat night ! I would be be in front of a Judge this morning for arraignment !

" Your Honor..the State requests remand for this Musician..there's no telling where he will go play out of Tune in the future" !

Which neck ?

Me too..E9th..as mentioned above so eloquently ..(Thanks Randy) it's only 10 strings..there's lots of notes..but which ones do ya play ?..And when do ya play em ?

It's just too much fun..

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 13 July 2004 at 02:06 AM.]

rpetersen · From: Iowa

Jerry - except for you stating "Lap Steel" - I was thinking of Tom Morrel on your 10 string question? - That guy is amazing with no pedals!

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Ron Petersen &
The Keep'n Tyme Band
Mullen Universal 12 - 1975 Session 400

[This message was edited by rpetersen on 12 July 2004 at 06:52 AM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

If he was using a lot of bar slants and a lot of pulling strings behind the bar, it was indeed Billy Robinson. Tom Morrell does not slant too often. Also I do not ever remember seeing him pull the strings behind the bar. He may indeed have, but I just don't recall seeing it.

Billy has mastered the art of pulling strings. He is also very good a bar slanting. He uses both movements often in every song he plays.

Both Tom Morrell, and Billy Robinson are unique non pedal Steel Guitar players. Billy is of course a derivative of Jerry Byrd while Tom is more oriented towards western swing and possibly Don Helms style of playing.

But both continue to be "excellance" personified on the lap steel.

carl

Charles Turpin · From: Mexico, Missouri, USA

If i had to pick and the police came with a big axe and cut my guitar into i would have to have the E9th. Cause i feel do to the interval layout of the strings, and with playing the major scales with pedals it is a lot easier to execute almost all the licks. If you think not listen to George Straits, " Something Special" sounds like the C6 but Jeff Newman says in his work shop it was done on the E9th and he did the Work shop there.

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Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

At a recent steel jam, I was amazed to hear Bobby Black chicken pickin' "Rocky Top" on a 10-string C6th lap steel. Bobby has incorporated the E9th "chromatic" strings into his C6th tuning. The 8-string version is like this:

D


B


E


C


A


G


E


C#

I'm not sure what he added for the other 2 strings.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Joerg Hennig · From: Bavaria, Germany

A point that never seems to get much attention... you can duplicate some typical E9 country licks to some degree on C6 with pedal 7, IF YOU HAVE a G on top, unlike most players today. The 4th string with p7 engaged would be like the 5th string on E9 and the 1st string is the equivalent of string 3 on E9 with the B pedal engaged. String 3 on C6, pulled up a tone by pedal 7, would be what string 4 is on E9. String 5 on C6 of course is the same as string 6 on E9 with the B pedal engaged. I´m sure this could be further refined by adding some extra changes. Any tuning can emulate the sound of any other tuning if you put on the appropriate changes.

Regards, JH

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Yes.....It was Billy Robinson who I heard. I just couldn't believe how he got that thing to cry with those slants and all. This guy has chops to spare for sure...JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Corky Owens · From: Owensboro, KY USA

A great steel man once told me to concentrate on E9th because that would pay my bills. Bobby Tuttle told me that when i was buying my first pedal steel. Thank you Bobby. It's paid my bills for 25 years now.

Carter SD-10 4X5
Franklin D-10 8X5
Peavey Profex 2
Too many amps

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Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Here is a E9 tuning worked out that makes the money and still play jazz on it. Has all the E9 pedals and knee levers, plus (C6 stuff only on E6).Just look at it and see how close it is to standard E9. I will post the pedals later........al

:

1-F#
2-D#
3-G#
4-E
5-C#
6-B
7-G#
8-F#
9-E
10-D
11-B
12-E

For my own use ,this is not exactly what I use.But it is good for an E9 player to expand his playing and still play E9......

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

Hey b0b, was that an Alkire 10 string lap?

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Yes it was, Dan.

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