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Topic: Emmons Legrand II vs Legrand III |
Bill Simmons
From:
Keller, Texas/Birmingham, AL, R.I.P.
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Posted 29 Jun 2004 3:47 pm |
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| What are the thoughts about the advantage of having the counter force of the Legrand III over the II? A friend asked me if Emmons players prefer the III or over the II without the counter force...what would you order...your thoughts are appreciated to learn the difference. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2004 4:20 pm
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Depends entirely on how critical cabinet drop is to you. If it doesn't matter to you or you have not noticed it, NO need to even think about the III.
If cabinet drop is somewhat of a problem but you "can" live with it, but would maybe like to have no cabinet drop, then consider it but consider the price also. The III is not cheap, counterforce about $300 per neck.
If, you are among some, who cabinet drop is a serious problem to ya, the price should not even enter the picture, III is for you. Buy it and never look back and enjoy!
Along this line, I am reminded of the night I first saw Buck Owens in person (I had gone purposely to see Tom Brumley since "I tune the singer out  ). When Buck introduced his band members, it was obvious that Don Rich was his right arm and he could not do without him. Willy Cantou and Doyle Holly were hmmmm should I say necessary evils; all in of course.
Then he paused for a moment, walked over to Tom Brumley and said to the audience, "you know people who don't know nuthin?" Then he pointed to Tom, and said,
"He don't e'em suspect nuthun!!!!! "
So for those that have cabinet drop and "don't even suspect nuthun", get that II and pick the far outa that thang! And as my dear friend Herb Steiner said,
"Forgedaboutit!"
Note: in my own personal case, NOTHING less than the III would even be considered (IF, I was buying and Emmons. I simply abhor cabinet drop. (Or raise). Sadly I know of no nothing that will stop cabinet raise. 
carl[This message was edited by C Dixon on 30 June 2004 at 09:23 AM.] |
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john buffington
From:
Owasso OK - USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2004 7:23 pm
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I have a LeGrande III and wouldn't take for it. I have played an owned previous models of LeGrande's, all great guitars, but for my ear I'll take the III any day. It is worth the extra to get to play the thing in tune. Just my .02 worth.
John Buffington
Emmons LG III, Webb Amps[This message was edited by john buffington on 29 June 2004 at 08:24 PM.] |
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Paul King
From:
Gainesville, Texas, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2004 4:24 am
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| Bill, I bought a LeGrande III with the counterforce on the E9th neck only. I love this steel. It plays and sounds great and stays in tune. You know the circumstances I was in when I met you before the Texas show. I will go one better, come up and see me and you can personally play the one I have and see for yourself. If you get the itch just give me a call. |
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Jeff Agnew
From:
Dallas, TX
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Posted 30 Jun 2004 2:27 pm
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Adding to Paul's kind offer, you're welcome to try mine (counterforce on both necks) for a demo any time you'd like to stop by. I'm in Grapevine, so it's pretty close to Keller.
And it's black, so... you know. |
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Paul King
From:
Gainesville, Texas, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2004 4:27 am
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| Hey Jeff, I forgot to mention mine is black as well. Bill lives in Keller so he is pretty close to you even though I am down I35 right before you get to Oklahoma. If Bill comes over I promise you that you will see a fantastic steel player as well as a great person. |
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Chris Forbes
From:
Beltsville, MD, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2004 9:06 am
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| So you can tune everything straight up 440 on the III? |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2004 11:08 am
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Chris,
You can tune any steel straight up 440. But that is not the purpose for the III counterforce mod.
Rather, its purpose is to prevent non pulled strings from lowering, when other strings are raised such as the 6th string (usually the most severe one) when the A or C Pedal is pressed. Or the 4th string when the A and/or B pedals are pressed.
Many who purchase the III, tune JI (just intonation). The only one that I know of that tunes Straight up 440 (or extremely close to it) which is called ET tuning on the LeGrande III, is Buddy Emmons.
carl |
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Jeff Agnew
From:
Dallas, TX
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Posted 2 Jul 2004 3:34 am
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Carl,
I do, as well. And that is probably the only true similarity I'll ever have to Buddy Emmons. |
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Doug Rolfe
From:
Indianapolis, IN
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Posted 2 Jul 2004 5:06 am
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| So does Bill Stafford tune straight up. |
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Peewee Charles
From:
Waterloo,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 4 Jul 2004 7:41 am
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| I got my LeGrande 111 a few years ago. Great guitar. Did an outdoor show @ Cayuga Speeway yesterday & was concerned about the hot & humid conditions, as I've not really had the Emnons in an outdoor setting before this. Set up for sound check @ 3, left the guitar on the stage, as other acts did there checks, came back to do the 8PM show & did not have to make any adjustments. Played in tune for the 1 1/2 Show. I'm real happy with the guitar. |
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Bill Simmons
From:
Keller, Texas/Birmingham, AL, R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Jul 2004 9:33 am
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Thanks everyone for your wise thoughts! I'm learning a lot...one more question that came up...is it true that the counter force makes the pedal action a little stiffer to play?
Thanks Paul and Jeff for your kind offer to test drive your Emmons III steels.
Thanks Pee Wee Charles for all the years of great steel playing -- especially with Gordon Lightfoot![This message was edited by Bill Simmons on 04 July 2004 at 10:35 AM.] |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2004 10:23 am
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Bill, it is necessary that the pedal feel be slightly stiffer because it takes energy to pressure the changer to the original pitch. It is set up with a 20 to 1 ratio so the additional effort is very minor.
Jerry |
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Reggie Duncan
From:
Mississippi
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Posted 4 Jul 2004 2:43 pm
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Being a tone deaf push puller, I am probably not the best judge of all pull guitars.
But, I have played both. The III was a little stiffer, but not much. Had a KILLER tone with the 710! The II was a dream and the tone is as good as I have heard! Besides mine.
I play an SD10 and if I was in the market for a new guitar, I would buy the SD10 LeGrande II. Cabinet drop doesn't bother a tone deaf PP'er |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2004 3:25 pm
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I applaud you for that Reggie, and I agree with you since you can't hear it.
On the other side of the coin, there are a number of players who are more than bothered by it. This is IMO, why Buddy bought two III's instead of II's.
In my case, IF I had any idea Ron Sr was coming out with the III and its intrinsic counterforce mod, I would have waited. Since they won't retrofit them, I am stuck. I hate the drop on string 6 when the A pedal is engaged. Drives me crazy; particularly 3 frets up using the A pedal and F lever.
I get so frustrated with it, I sometimes will NOT use that inversion simply because of the drop on the 6th string. So in my case ONLY the III would be satisfactory. If the counterforce mod caused a slight stiffness to the pedals, then it would be more than worth the sacrifice.
But Reggie, I would give all the III's and every steel guitar ever built if I could play just one note as beautiful as you play it dear friend.
Jesus truly blessed you with an awesome musical talent precious friend,
carl |
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Paul King
From:
Gainesville, Texas, USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2004 5:21 pm
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| Bill, I honestly cannot tell a difference. My LeGrande III plays great. I wish I had bought one years ago now. I am very happy with what I have bought...Paul King |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 5 Jul 2004 4:29 am
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" Cabinet drop doesn't bother a tone deaf PP'er "
it don't bother a tone deaf Legrand player either.
------------------
84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 5 Jul 2004 5:34 am
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give me musical knowledge of big E and Curly and keep your counterforceenforcere c**p... 
Db |
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