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Topic: Fretboard Cheat Sheet |
W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2014 5:36 pm |
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I have been looking for a note chart that I could place on my guitar fretboard, and not finding one, I made one:
Tuning is C6, but the 6th is the sixth string (A - C - E - G - C - E). I put the major chords (although I do remember these) on the top of the chart, minor chords on the bottom, and under each string at the fret marker I put the note that is played when the bar is over the note.
In the picture here it seems hard to see the individual notes, but on the fretboard they are easy to see.
The idea is that I can learn the notes, then later on discard the chart.
The chart helps me remember where the notes are, and I can visually see the notes in relation to the chords, like playing the same note in different chords, like playing F in the major chord F, or F in Bb, or F note in Dm, etc etc.
Seems to me I saw something like this somewhere. But the tuning I'm using is odd so I doubt I'd find one anyway for this particular tuning.
W. Johnson
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 9 Jul 2014 4:54 pm
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Great job. I use to use fretboard stickers as they also do the job. HOWEVER you can take an equally long time to wean yourself off of it.
I am now weaning myself off of that technique as you become so reliant on it takes really long to remember all the note locations.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 9 Jul 2014 4:56 pm
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Your C6 would be called Amin7
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2014 8:07 pm
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| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
Great job. I use to use fretboard stickers as they also do the job. HOWEVER you can take an equally long time to wean yourself off of it.
I am now weaning myself off of that technique as you become so reliant on it takes really long to remember all the note locations. |
I can look at a piano keyboard, and instantly I know where every note is. My guitar fretboard has 26 frets, not including open, and 162 notes. A person can look at the fretboard, figure out the fret, think about it a while, finally after a while figure out where the notes are. I guess that after practicing a lot for years a person finally learns where the notes are quite well, probably some people better than others.
Anyway, you are right, it will take a while when I remove the note chart.
Right now I really like being able to look at the fretboard and instantly know where all the notes are, and see the notes for various chords for bar slants. I don't have to stop and try and figure it out, and it makes it tons easier to play.
On another note, I was curious about how a flat bar works for a tone bar, so I grabbed a piece of 1/4" x 1" steel bar and made one. It's about 4" long. Being thin (comparatively speaking to a bar) it's easier to play bar slants. I might round off the ends upwards or something so it doesn't catch on strings. It's just high carbon steel, but it works really well, tone and sustain seem good.
I might buy some stainless and make a better one.
I wonder how many people actually might be using a flat bar for a tone bar?
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 2:54 pm
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I have two flat bars that I gave to my daughter as she's only 4 but can control it better than a round bar.
Not the nicest tone when I tried. Makes every thing sound too thin for my taste but a great learning tool for kids.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 11 Jul 2014 5:51 am
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| In my opinion (and a lot of other, MUCH better musicians than me),,,the names of the notes are not nearly as important as the intervals,,,or more specifically the relationship to other notes. And luckily, there is a fool-proof, sure fire way to learn those relationships,,,plus it can be kinda fun. ROOT and FIFTH,,,,,turn on some music,,,find the key (Root) and start playing "bass",,,root,,,five,,,root,,,five. Guess what,,,if you know where the 1 and 5 are,,,you pretty much automatically know where the 2 is,,,and the 4,,,and the 6,,,IN RELATION to the root,,,and lets face it,,,it's that relationship that is music,,,,not the "names" of the notes. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 13 Jul 2014 11:50 pm
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A few points to note that will help
Your tuning ACEGCE is really only 4 strings that need to be memorised.
String 6-3. The 1st two simply repeat.
Secondly you only need to memorise the first 12 frets as after that it repeats.
Thirdly learning intervals is important but building that idea off of the root and 5th is tedious and slow going. Especially when playing chord melodies in jazz when very often there may not be either.
Ie you may have the 3rd and the 7th. The 5th is absolutely unnecessary and if a bassist is playing or you are jamming along to jam tracks they will play the root.
So where does that leave you?
Learn the fretboard. Learn the relationships between the notes. Then learn some music you enjoy. And break it down bar by bar.
A shortcut is if you understand the circle of fifths and keys. This will help you pre-empt what basic chord form will likely be used in the key.
Chord progressions will then fall into place. And if you want to play jazz you will soon find that ANY chord in the right key can be played and each different change you implement adds your own STYLE.
further down the road you will realise if you are already there. That inversions also change the feel behind each chord and can lead/mislead the melody of the song.
No matter what anyone says LEARN THE NOTES. Music is not just random but is a language to communicate like any other. It's as basic as learning the alphabet. Now who would tell someone to not know the alphabet. Just crazy.
Let's keep steelin.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 10:35 am
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| Note that I said "not nearly as important",,,,1 and 5 were only an example simply because of the beginning AND approximate mid-point in the scale,,,pretty much give you the intervals on either side. The "names" of the notes can and will be "accumulated",,,much the way the alphabet was AFTER we learned to talk (using your example),,,,,we on this side of the world normally learn to talk before we learn the alphabet. Like I said,,,I gleened this concept from much better players than I am. Tommy Morrell was the strongest advocate of interval playing I know of,,,,and Reece also,,,,and Buddy wrote about it relative to the C6 neck in Steel Guitar Player magazine many years ago,,,,but that in NO way is to imply they did not know note names,,,,but hey,,,whatever,,,,to each his own. Whatever floats your boat,,,,I'm out,,,, |
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Deirdre Higgins
From:
Connecticut, USA
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Posted 9 May 2015 9:32 am
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How do I go about learning the notes & chord progressions? Sure I can play songs from tab but that is not learning the instrument. From what I see there are no books available,plenty for guitar though. I wish someone would publish a book dedicated to steel guitar showing notes on the fretboard along with scales and progression.
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Jerry Byrd Fan |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 9 May 2015 10:49 am
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Deirdre, I'm working on just such a book right now .... scales, arpeggios, chords, exercises and improvisational tools for C6th. No songs but ideas and techniques for Hawaiian, Country, Rock & Blues, Swing, etc. It'll be a while until it's finished and out there, but it's in the works!
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Deirdre Higgins
From:
Connecticut, USA
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Posted 12 May 2015 6:32 pm
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| Andy Volk wrote: |
| Deirdre, I'm working on just such a book right now .... scales, arpeggios, chords, exercises and improvisational tools for C6th. No songs but ideas and techniques for Hawaiian, Country, Rock & Blues, Swing, etc. It'll be a while until it's finished and out there, but it's in the works! |
Ooooh, I can't wait Andy. from your description that's just what I'm looking for.
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Jerry Byrd Fan |
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Deirdre Higgins
From:
Connecticut, USA
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Posted 12 May 2015 6:34 pm
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Thanks Stefan, now if I can get this old brain to do some memorizing. Great website BTW!
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Jerry Byrd Fan |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 13 May 2015 12:45 am
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Thanks.
Trick is to memorise 4.
2 strings are repeated.
Definitely easier than nearly 12 to memorise. I tell you. 
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 13 May 2015 12:51 am Re: Fretboard Cheat Sheet
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Reminds me of the student steels. I can truly say I went through the stickers on the Fretboard idea which is amazing for learning but the second you remove the stickers you realise you were SO dependent on them that your brain switched off and didn't memorise the positions like you had dreamed.
I had to remove all of this and keep the chart on the wall and the instrument like how I will play it on the night. essentially I had to almost start over.
Steel is not like guitar where you can feel your way and force your hands to memorise. I tried that. You aren't essentially touching anything specific like the fretboard so its all about placement.
| W. Johnson wrote: |
I have been looking for a note chart that I could place on my guitar fretboard, and not finding one, I made one:
Tuning is C6, but the 6th is the sixth string (A - C - E - G - C - E). I put the major chords (although I do remember these) on the top of the chart, minor chords on the bottom, and under each string at the fret marker I put the note that is played when the bar is over the note.
In the picture here it seems hard to see the individual notes, but on the fretboard they are easy to see.
The idea is that I can learn the notes, then later on discard the chart.
The chart helps me remember where the notes are, and I can visually see the notes in relation to the chords, like playing the same note in different chords, like playing F in the major chord F, or F in Bb, or F note in Dm, etc etc.
Seems to me I saw something like this somewhere. But the tuning I'm using is odd so I doubt I'd find one anyway for this particular tuning.
W. Johnson |
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 13 May 2015 1:11 am
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I sent you an email hope it helps.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 23 Oct 2015 12:21 am Fretboard stickers HELP
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So I changed my tuning minimally but it changed the layout essentially putting me back nearly at square one. But I noticed even though I originally thought fretboard stickers had its downfall. Damn when muscle memory does it 1000 times it actually helped having the notes.
So back to fretboard stickers.
Have a read.
https://ilapsteel.wordpress.com/2015/10/22/fretboard-stickers/
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Michael James
From:
La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2015 11:05 am
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Putting the note names on the fretboard of your instrument seems like a bad idea to me.
When I was completely new to lap steel about three years ago. I was using a tuning that was completely different from anything I had ever done. I found three different ways to find notes.
1. I learned a couple of vertical major scale patterns that I referenced to find notes in different positions.
2. I would count the notes up in alphabetical order from the open string to the note I needed. Sometimes having to do this on different string to find a good note placement.
3. I used major, minor ect... chord shapes to find notes. If I had a C chord, and my three string chord is 1-3-5, I then knew I had the notes of C-E-G.
In the end you have to learn the fretboard in some way that is musical to you. These three ways seem more musical to me than labeling the notes on your instrument. Especially 1. and 3. from above. There are no short cuts. Especially if you want to play intuitively.
mj |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2015 12:09 am
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| Michael James wrote: |
Putting the note names on the fretboard of your instrument seems like a bad idea to me.
When I was completely new to lap steel about three years ago. I was using a tuning that was completely different from anything I had ever done. I found three different ways to find notes.
1. I learned a couple of vertical major scale patterns that I referenced to find notes in different positions.
2. I would count the notes up in alphabetical order from the open string to the note I needed. Sometimes having to do this on different string to find a good note placement.
3. I used major, minor ect... chord shapes to find notes. If I had a C chord, and my three string chord is 1-3-5, I then knew I had the notes of C-E-G.
In the end you have to learn the fretboard in some way that is musical to you. These three ways seem more musical to me than labeling the notes on your instrument. Especially 1. and 3. from above. There are no short cuts. Especially if you want to play intuitively.
mj |
This thread was started by me a long time ago, last year. Based upon suggestions from those who know how to play vastly better than I, and also my own observations, I decided to forego the fret board note labeling I posted about in this thread.
Recently, I began to notice the vertical patterns of notes of scales, as you have, basically the major scale, minor scale, and/or blues scale, following the notes in patterns. Although I'm new at this technique, it has really been a help to me to look at the fret board, play a scale, and actually know what notes I am playing. I believe this is the first method you refer to. I have not so much used the 2nd and 3rd method. Since I have had no lessons or spoken to anyone who really knows how to play, (I am just teaching myself how to play) I have no idea if this technique is common among lap steel players. I am kind of happy to read your post and realize that you are doing the same thing I am doing, or rather, I stumbled upon the same thing you are doing.
I spend a lot of time practicing on my lap steel, scales and arpegios in various keys. I like to make up melodies.
I am also fascinated by chord scales, that is, playing scales that consist of chords.
Don't know if that makes any sense. ? Anyway, it's late, ......... good night. 
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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Michael James
From:
La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2015 6:38 am
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Hi Wayne,
I'm glad you found a method for learning the fretboard. I wasn't sure my post was going to be perceived in a positive light. I really appreciate your thoughtful and appropriate response.
Thanks,
mj |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 24 Oct 2015 7:53 am
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Fretboard stickers help me to learn the theory and apply it faster.
And as I realised that once it was committed to "muscle memory" then who needs stickers, 
Anything that helps. Also I've tried to not learn notes at random but as suggested know the intervals in a chord.
I'm looking at it kind of like clear markings on a piano. But we have a lot more locations to memorise positioning that is unique.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2015 8:15 am
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| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
Fretboard stickers help me to learn the theory and apply it faster.
And as I realised that once it was committed to "muscle memory" then who needs stickers,
Anything that helps. Also I've tried to not learn notes at random but as suggested know the intervals in a chord.
I'm looking at it kind of like clear markings on a piano. But we have a lot more locations to memorise positioning that is unique. |
Yes, just like the stickers you use, I found that the 'fret board cheat sheet' I made helped. It helped me to learn some of the notes and patterns, and led me to discover the vertical patterns I mentioned. T stickers or cheat sheet can be tools, stepping stones of learning.
If we only do what the majority says we should do, then we will limit ourselves. It is important to experiment with new and different ideas and see if they work or not. It is also important to listen to others, especially if they have more experience than we do, and try and understand why they are saying what they are saying, and learn from their experiences.
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2015 5:56 am
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Well, there's NEVER an inappropriate moment to regurgitate the Hankey Upright Fretboard! to my eyes it's an easier visual leap to look above the nose of the bar than down through the strings. The original:
As you see, Mr. Hankey even forewent the usual fretboard at that point. My take on that:
But maskless is easy enough:
I've internalized whatever tuning-related frettiness there is to do with such a thing, but I guarantee it makes any attempt at reading sheet music-while-steeling mountains easier; and probably tab too, or even words if you're one of those singer-y types. Any way you can get the lines of music as close to the bottom of the stand helps too, like folding a printout in half etc. And it taught me that a white fretboard or overlay mixes with white-paper music better too - it's just less adjusting for your eyes to do and I need all the help I can with sheet music. With Mr. Johnson's mechanical aptitude this could be like a two-minute job, for sure. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 25 Oct 2015 8:08 am
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| Michael James wrote: |
Hi Wayne,
I'm glad you found a method for learning the fretboard. I wasn't sure my post was going to be perceived in a positive light. I really appreciate your thoughtful and appropriate response.
Thanks,
mj |
Hey Michael
Any posts are always welcomed. Besides if we didn't have thick skin we wouldn't get anywhere with music or even Lap Steel Guitar.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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