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Topic: Signal chain for steel and pedals |
Scott McRee
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2015 3:32 pm |
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So I'm all mixed up. I have my guitar, volume pedal, mxr eq, reverb, delay, chorus, overdrive, and amp. Can smoke please tell me a detailed description of how I should be running this signal chain starting from "out of the guitar...etc?
Thanks a lot in advance
Scott |
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Bill Moran
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2015 5:13 pm
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Guitar, overdrive, vol. pedal, delay, chorus ?, reverb, amp. Put the EQ on eBay. I don't see any use in the chorus but if you must ?
_________________
Bill |
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Scott McRee
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2015 5:17 pm
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| Eq is because I play a u12 and it helps some of the lower notes come through a little less muddy. Why overdrive before volume peda at a curiosity? Thanks for the help |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 Apr 2015 6:20 pm
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Overdrive works more consistently with a constant volume, and if you throttle it back, it will overdrive less. This is USUALLY not desirable, but some choose to work with it.
I USED to run lots of gear, but I've gone to preferring the sound of a spare, clean chain. I'll insert and remove effects between songs on a gig, and mostly just run guitar-volume pedal-amp, inserting a box before the pedal when needed.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 29 Apr 2015 11:54 am
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Guitar>>>cord>>>amp, with a little reverb. Maybe a little delay, for one repeat.
So far, the only person I've heard with realistic distortion/fuzz/overdrive, was Robert Randolph. What's he using, now? |
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Bobby Snell
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 29 Apr 2015 3:19 pm
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Scott, you'll see lots on the internet guitar forums about effect order, some of it is entertaining.
One good thing to remember is that it really takes some experimenting with your own rig to hear how your effects interact with each other, the steel and amp.
I would suggest that step one may be to string Chorus>Delay>Reverb in that order. This will be your "time" module. Plug your guitar into this and then go to the amp and twist some knobs and hear what happens.
Generally, it's good to have any "overdrive" effects before "time." So step two could be hearing twisting knob variations of Guitar>OD>Chorus>Delay>Reverb.
At this point, add the volume pedal to the chain - - try both before the OD and after. Players have their own reasons for this choice, and it really depends on the effect wanted and the equipment itself. It's enough of a debate to warrant its own thread - -but you can't break anything, try it both ways.
Having an EQ begs a very wide discussion as well. Again, you can't break anything experimenting with the EQ right out of the guitar, or before the OD, or as the last thing before the amp.
Hope that helps to give you a few starting ideas. |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 29 Apr 2015 3:31 pm
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Realistic! Stephen, Do we really want to sound like we're actually distorted and fuzzy? 
Scott, "Can Smoke" Explain please, oh oh maybe not!
Last edited by Stuart Legg on 29 Apr 2015 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Scott McRee
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2015 3:34 pm
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Thanks for the replies. Bobby thanks for the advice, I don't think I'm going to run the chorus anymore. Don't really like it but I am curious about the eq peda because I think it could help with the low strings on my u12. I might just tweak the lows on the amp a bit. We shall see. Thanks again.
Scott |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 29 Apr 2015 3:40 pm
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This is gonna sound weird, but cranking more lows doesn't always make the lows sound fatter and better, but just muddy.
You haven't said what amp or how you set it. Turn the lows up til they get a little "woofy", and back it off a bit. Try turning up the HIGHS, and then dropping the presence to tame the icepick highs.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Hinds
From:
Gallatin, TN USA
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 29 Apr 2015 5:13 pm
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Wise old guru once saild... "Effects are to cover clams!"
_________________
Lawyers are done: Emmons SD-10, 3 Dekleys including a D10, NV400, and lots of effects units to cover my clams... |
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Scott McRee
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2015 5:47 pm
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I realized when I cranked the lows on my eq it made it worse. I like having the eq, it takes little bit of the harshness out. I have done just minor tweaks and it sounds better I think. I am using a galien Krueger mb200 with a 15 inch custom built amp. I have a Carter u12. All suggestions and advice is appreciated. Thank you
Scott |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 29 Apr 2015 5:58 pm
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Doesn't that have
LOW
Low Mids
High Mids
Highs
Presence?
If I remember right, try something like
Lows just below 3 o'clock
Low mids about the same
High mids 11 o'clock
Highs and presence about 1
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Scott McRee
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2015 8:20 pm
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Sounds good. So let me ask yall this. Why would it hurt to have a ten band eq as a pedal if it only dials the tone in better? I'm just learning and curious. Isn't it just a way to help the steel sound even better? I understand most of it comes from seat time and working at it but how could a ten and eq pedal hurt the sound?
Scott |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2015 9:08 pm
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Go to a Guitar Center and get on one of those Boss pedal demonstrators where you can put 40 pedals in series... even with all the pedals off, the tone is not as good as when you plug straight into the amp... too many op-amps in the way is bad, more is not better. A 10-band EQ has 10 amps (in parallel)... all contribute noise and phase distortion to the signal. Parametric EQ's are better, in that you only use one or two op-amps to achieve the same (just about) thing. In general, the fewer stages of amplification, the fewer transistors/tubes/whatever in the way, the cleaner and more pure the tone will be.
_________________
New FB Page: Lap Steel Licks And Stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/195394851800329 |
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Charlie Thompson
From:
South Carolina, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2015 4:58 am
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| What Bill Moran said |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Apr 2015 5:59 am
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Scott,
It sounds like you want more definition in the low strings. Unfortunately, many players spend a fortune and waste a lot of time trying everything else, but when your tone needs help, you should call on a good buffer as the first responder.
Best wishes as you chase that elusive sound. We've all chased it.
Craig Baker 706-485-8792
cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com
C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024
_________________
"Make America Great Again". . . The Only Country With Dream After Its Name. |
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Scott McRee
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2015 6:00 am
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I see what you guys are saying. Thanks for the advice. I will do away with the eq. I do have another question and I know that most responses with say "just years of seat time and playing and right hand technique etc..." But there is a certain steel sound that is exquisite. David Hartley is the player and he's on YouTube. He mentions in one of his videos that he plays through some teloji a rack gear. He shows the little 3 space rack but I can't tell what model units he's using. In general, is there a good simple piece of rack gear that gives a great tone and really cleans up the sound? I play through a galien Krueger mb200 and I like the amp I just am still trying to mess with the settings to see what really stands out to me and I'm playing a lot. Any tips on some well known simple devices that increase tone would be great. I know 90% of it is seat time just was curious. Thanks all for the tips and time taken to help us newbies.
Scott |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 30 Apr 2015 6:04 am
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The Telonics amp is probably noticeably better than the one you have. But the amp you have is used by many veteran players here.
The quickest way to better tone is to spend some time practicing without an amp at all. Pick hard enough to hear yourself.
Now when you plug back in, PICK THAT HARD.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 30 Apr 2015 6:12 am
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Sounds like my "high power" rig:
Carter==>Effects(OD/delay/verb)==>MB200==>Sica 15 inch cab
No complaints. Suits me fine.
h
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Listowner Resoguit-L |
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Charlie Thompson
From:
South Carolina, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2015 6:32 am
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| David Hartley has a ton of videos using all kinds of different gear. They all sound good. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 30 Apr 2015 8:30 am
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Oops. I meant this for the other thread.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
Last edited by Lane Gray on 30 Apr 2015 6:44 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 30 Apr 2015 9:04 am
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| Scott McRee wrote: |
Sounds good. So let me ask yall this. Why would it hurt to have a ten band eq as a pedal if it only dials the tone in better? I'm just learning and curious. Isn't it just a way to help the steel sound even better? I understand most of it comes from seat time and working at it but how could a ten and eq pedal hurt the sound?
Scott |
As far as the EQ making the tone better, wouldn't you think the thousands of players that don't use them, including all the real big name players, would be using one.
The statement that I bolded in your comment: You need to find the tone in your hands before adding any effects. David Hartley's tone is mostly in his hands, developed over many years of playing. I have never seen him use an EQ pedal or rack unit. No effect or chain of effects is going to eliminate the need for you to put in the "seat time".
There are NO shortcuts.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Scott McRee
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2015 2:19 pm
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| Sorry I think I have miscommunicated my ideas. I'm 100% aware that seat time if crucial and the most important thing by far. I was just curious because from another perspective, there are a lot of good players with great tone and there is a reason why they have different gear and preferences. when you say telonics amp, you are taking about the preamp correct? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 30 Apr 2015 3:11 pm
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Probably. But he'd sound about the same through a Twin or Session 400.
Here, no toys at all. A Sho-Bud, a pot pedal and a Fender Twin Reverb. https://youtube.com/watch?v=aPD1yKPTzGM
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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