E9th 1st & 2nd strings

Gene Wright · From: Cody Wyoming USA

I have been using E9th tuning for some time and find no use for the 1st and 2nd strings. What am I doing wrong. Also found a Fender super reverb 1965 blackface with scorpion speakers, had a bad power trasformer and one tube. Paid $75.00 for it, got it fixed and what sound it has. Better than my friends twin reverb. Happy am I!! Thanks, Gene

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Hey Gene. congrats on a great deal on that amp.
check out the thread " Hughey change"
there's a bunch of ideas on what to do with strings 1 and 2.
I've always lowered string 2 a half, and raised string 1 a half, but theres a lot more that can be done with these strings.
Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

To get a 5 chord, play strings 5, 2, 1. Then slide up 2 frets and lower your 2nd string to get a 6m chord.

That's G at the 8th fret up to Am at the 10th.

It's also C at the first fret up to Dm at the 3rd.

You can play complete harmony scales going up and down the neck on the first two strings. Figure them out. Once you do, you'll find all sorts of uses for them.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Don't give up..give it some more time.

The power that is available from those 2 little thin stings is untapped.

I am thinking that the most common set-up these days has the 1st string with a full tone raise and the second string with not one, not 2 but 3 changes. 1/2 step raise, 1/2 step lower and full step lower.

You're probably not aware of the many many things you hear that come directly off of these 2 strings .

Another point I would like to bring forward. And I don't mean to diminish anything that has been previously stated. I personally think it is a mistake to tie knee lever and pedal changes only to the proper chord spelling. My opinion is that if you are only looking at chord possibilities then you are missing abundant phrasing opportunities whether it be for passing phrases or melody lines. These 2 top strings are an absolute necessity for this Instrument, forget about the correct chord spellings that may be available with various combinations..look at them as a means of getting from point A to point B..

The 2nd string with 3 notes coming off the levers ( 4 including the natural) is a party all by itself !

Keep in mind what Joe Pass states in his guitar instructional video..

" I'm not really sure what the correct name of this chord is, I know what family it's in, but I know it sounds good, and thats most important"

Sometimes we get so hung up in the technicals we forget to play the music .

A nice excersise with these strings ( and more) is to play nursery rhymes. Single notes, then 2 notes. Obviously using your AB pedals as well .Old Macdonald, Mary had ....etc...

The trick about playing these types of tunes is you already know them..you don't need to learn the melody.

good luck

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 04 June 2004 at 03:18 AM.]

Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

I puzzled over those strings for a long time, too. Come to find out they are very important to the E9 sound. There's some pretty good suggestions on strings 1 & 2 (chromatic strings) in this thread: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/007404.html

Try some other searches for "chromatic strings" and you'll find lots of info.

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

This is very interesting .....I have used strings 1 and 2 very little.....I think I have to get a neck chart showing all the notes at once.....This way I can pick and choose what's going on with all the strings...This thread and the link has really openned up a whole new understanding of the 1rst and 2nd string....I've always been told that they are basically melody strings, but I can also see many other uses for them now .....Thanks to all who contributed here....Jim

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

James,

Very respectfully, if you are not using strings 1 and 2 ALL the time, you are missing out on much of what one hears on 1000's of recordings, plus 99% of steel shows.

I can equate with those who don't use them however. Because they are not chronologically within the scale; along with one of them being a "dissonant" note, it is not natural for most (at first) to use them. Until one forces their use, several scenarios loom large in a given players style:

1. Locked in to the major chord voicings, IE, strings 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 10. With an occassional foray with strings 7 and 9.

2. Strings 1 and 2 stay uncovered (with the bar) throughout entire songs in most cases.

If this is happening to you, or any other reader of this thread, I urge you to immediately force yourself to discover the incredible "gold" in these two awesome strings.

One habit that can happen, and remain without doing the above, is what I call playing only Bud Isaacs licks. He did not have these two strings. It was not until Buddy added them, that E9th became the gem that it is today. Those strings allow sounds NOT possible on this tuning, in any other way.

Yes you can find the notes, BUT you won't find the sound. And therein, lies the secret to those two "gotta have" strings. I will give you just one example. A very common movement in music is a flatted 5th note resolving immediately back to the natural 5th note. EX:

Key of C..3rd fret..pedals down... picking strings 4, 5 and 6. The 4th string is the "5th". The music suddenly calls for you to pick that string flatted one note or b5.

Without string 2, you are forced to slide the bar down one fret and get that note. The problem is it breaks the harmony notes. So what most do (without string 2) is to mute the chord, slide down one fret, pick string 4 and slide back. Or worse slide the whole chord down, which makes at least one of the harmony notes incorrect.

Now do the same thing...only this time, simply reach up WHILE 4, 5 and 6 are ringing and pick string 2. Then slide your bar back off of string 2 and mute it with your finger(s) behind the bar and repick strings 4, 5 and 6.

Great players have done this since strings 1 and 2 were added. When done with practice and correctly timed muting, it affords a steel player a privilege once denied on most other steel tunings.

You can do the same thing with the 1st string. Only in this case you stay at th same fret. NOTE: this is just with the open string tunings, not to mentioning the hidden "gold" when you bring in knee levers that alter these strings' notes. Which was stated correctly by others above.

Try it! I promise you will "lack" it.

May Jesus bless you in your quests,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 04 June 2004 at 10:34 AM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Beginners will typically use 3 fret positions for A+B pedals down: I, II and V. Notice that on the II and V positions, you will want to lower the 2nd string to D to get a scale tone from it.

It's a good rule of thumb that, if you have pedals down and you're not at the I fret, you will want to lower the 2nd string to D. Get into the habit of pushing that lever when you press A+B. There's a real pretty melody note just sitting there in front of you on that 2nd string.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

David Doggett · Posted 4 Jun 2004 1:23 pm

As Carl points out, a major function of strings 1 and 2 is to allow full scales or melodies at a single fret without moving the bar and losing the chord. A good exercise and discovery tool is to play as much of a scale as you can without moving the bar, but using whatever pedals and knees you need, plus strings 1 and 2. Do this at the open pedal position, the AB pedal position, the F lever A pedal position, the A pedal relative minor position, the E lower lever minor position, and the BC pedal minor position. Amazingly, those strings 1 and 2 give you something useful at every one of those positions.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Here's a little solo I've been working on:

    Dm                          Em


F#___________1_____1_________|___________3_____3_________|


D#_____1_____________________|_____3L____________________|


G#______________1____________|______________3____________|


E ________1___________1______|________3___________3______|


B __1A___________________1A__|__3A___________________3A__|


G#___________________________|___________________________|


    D  E  F  G  A  G  F  D      E  F  G  A  B  A  G  E


 


    Fmaj                        Gsus        G


F#___________4G____4G________|___________________________|


D#_____4_____________________|___________________________|


G#______________4____________|___________________________|


E ________4F__________4F_____|__3___________3____________|


B __4A___________________4A__|__3___________3____________|


G#___________________________|__3B__________3____________|


    F  G  A  B  C  B  A  F

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 04 June 2004 at 04:51 PM.]

Tim Bridges · From: Hoover, Alabama, USA

I recently purchased a Derby D-10, 8X8 from Charlie Strepp. This was much more than I was used to with my Sho Bud Professional 8X4. Initially I couldn't understand why there were 3 KL dedicated to strings 1 & 2. Well, it's all been addressed in this thread. My use of these 2 strings has been widely incorporated into my playing. And who said technology ain't a great thing?

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I couldn't live without them.

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Carter D10 9p/10k, NV400

Charles Curtis · Posted 5 Jun 2004 11:30 am

I became acquainted with these two strings when I bought my first Emmons many years ago (before that I had a D Cool

; thanks again Buddy Emmons.

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Bobby- Yes, as you say, that D note on the 2nd string can be so useful.

Before we had those strings, Zane Beck used to get that D on his 13 tuning, so he had the D right next to the C#(A pedal- B to C#) It sounded dissonant both together but worked great, and with pedals down it put him in D. With the D on top. Clever man that Zane....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Larry R · From: Navasota, Tx.

Gene, I wasn't using the lever that lowered the 2nd string or the lever that raised the 1rst string until about 2 yrs ago. Now I can't play without them. You probably haven't been playing some of the songs that are being played on todays country music or, you are playing the riffs but not using the standard knee lever and/or pedal combo. Keep on listening to the music and try to find other ways to play your music. You'll soon find out that a lever or pedal will get you there.

Moon in Alaska · From: Kasilof, Alaska * R.I.P.

First off.... I have not been on the forum in quite a while, but have been reading it every couple of days.
I think one of the main things about using strings #1 and #2 on the E-9th is the dissonance that they offer. They bring tension to the music and add a lot !!!

For the newer players, visualize where the strings sound lies....the first string F# lies between the #4 and #3. That move using the bar movement is a heck of a lot different
from using the chromatic string #1.
Same thing as using string #2.....
I hope to be on here some now !!!
Moon

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Bob Wood · From: Madera, California, USA

Man, I use the ?!*% outa my F#. Especially using it to get that F# to G# lick that you hear PF do all the time. It's become one of my most used strings. I can slide it from F# to G# for effect, or just use it to get that 1st string G# combined with my 3rd string G#. And, I use my second string for all those little melody single note riffs. There's a multitude of other things those two strings can do, but those are the ones that come to my mind at the moment. Just experiment around. I think you'll change your tune if you just give them the chance.

Bob

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Also,

How could we ever forget what Hal Rugg did when he backed Loretta Lynn on most of her classic hits? He used those strings to the ultimate IMO.

I suppose if I had to pick one song that showed it the best, it would have to be "One's On the Way". Hal's intro and turnaround in that classic, is almost mind boggling and is extremely difficult to do. If perfect blocking was ever necessary, this tune would be the one I think.

If you have not heard this song, click on the following link, then scroll down to 1972, click on it, then scroll down to Hal's intro. You will hear that 2nd string used to its ultimate, IMO.
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html

carl

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

What a cool lick. Is that tabbed out online anywhere?

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

Carl, are you sure about the "One's On The Way" lick?

I used to play it all on strings 3&5, and used the 2nd string just for the little tag at the end.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Well Jim,

I suppose you could be correct and if I am wrong I sincerely will stand corrected. But I could swear that is what I am hearing. I do KNOW this. There are other licks He came up with that DO use the second and of course 1st string. And I seem to hear parts of them in this particular intro.

Again, if he didn't and in fact used mostly the 3rd and 5th strings, I stand corrected, and beg your humble apology. In any case, it is my favorite lick by Hal of all his classics. And it is heckuva an intro IMO. Do yo agree?

carl

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

Carl, yes it is truly a heckuva intro, and you have nothing to apologized for.

Hal does use the chromatic strings a lot, and I can even hear one of his turnarounds that uses them a lot in my head, but can't think of the song title.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

"Your Squaw Is On The Warpath Tonight" is one that Hal seems to use a lot of the "chromatic" stings.

If someone could work out the parts to "One's On The Way", I would appreciate it. Maybe Bob Hempker could shed some light on these Hal Rugg lick's.

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Carter D10 9p/10k, NV400

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

1_________________________________________________________________________________


2_________________________________________________________________________________


3________20b~20b__21b~21b___22b______20b______20_____18_____15b______15___________


4_________________________________________________________________________________


5________20_~20a__21_~21a___22a______20a______20_____18_____15a______15___________


6___20b__________________________22b______20b_____20_____18______15b_____15________


7_________________________________________________________________________________


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9_________________________________________________________________________________


10________________________________________________________________________________

1_________________________________________________________________________________


2_________________________________________________________________________________


3___13_____10b______8b_____8____7____6____3b~3b__3b~3b__3b_3b_3b___3b_3b_3b_______


4_________________________________________________________________________________


5___13_____10a______8a_____8____7____6____3_~3a__3_~3a__3a_3_______3a_3___________


6______13______10b_____8b____8____7____6_______________________3b_________3b_______


7_________________________________________________________________________________


8_________________________________________________________________________________


9_________________________________________________________________________________


10________________________________________________________________________________

1_________________________________________________________________________________


2_________________________________________________________________________________


3___3b~3b__3b~3b__3b_3b_3b__3b_3b_3b______________________________________________


4_________________________________________________________________________________


5___3_~3a__3_~3a__3a_3______3a_3__________________________________________________


6_______________________3b________3b______________________________________________


7_________________________________________________________________________________


8_________________________________________________________________________________


9_________________________________________________________________________________


10________________________________________________________________________________

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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

Richard, that's the one I was trying to think of.

Jeff, that looks like how I used to play that intro.

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