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Topic: Time for a tube amp!! |
Justin Emmert
From:
Greensboro, NC
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Posted 6 Apr 2015 4:21 pm |
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After trying to learn this instrument for the last year, I just picked up my first regular gig playing for an up and coming Americana artist. So far, I've played 3 gigs with them with no practices......just reading charts they gave me. It's been great and I'm having a blast.
The issue is my current amp has died on me at 2 of the 3 gigs. One, I ended up going direct and the other I used a borrowed Blackstar from the venue. This can't continue.
The good part is that my wife has enjoyed the music and venues we played so much that she has demanded I get a new amp!!
So, I want to go with a tube amp this time. A Used Fender Twin Custom comes to mind as my first choice, just based on history, tone and what I've read on the forum. However, I would love to pay less and have less weight to carry if there is another tube option that is somewhat close in tone.
My budget is under $1000. I currently play a.Emmons SD-12 p/p with various effects. |
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Ken Pippus
From:
Langford, BC, Canada
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Robert Bunting
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2015 4:30 pm
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| With a grand You could get a Silverface twin, have it gone over AND pick up a Roland Cube 60 as back up. If weight is an issue build a cabinet for the twin head & get some cabinets to mix and match as your needs require. |
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James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2015 5:29 pm
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| Robert Bunting wrote: |
| With a grand You could get a Silverface twin, have it gone over AND pick up a Roland Cube 60 as back up. If weight is an issue build a cabinet for the twin head & get some cabinets to mix and match as your needs require. |
Yes. If you can get a Silverface Twin for the same price, go for the vintage amp. With just a bit of proper maintenance, it will last forever. I doubt the same can be said of current production Fender amps, aside from perhaps pricey 'custom shop' types. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 6 Apr 2015 7:21 pm
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A Silverface Twin should be under a grand.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Michael Todd
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2015 7:26 pm
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A Silverface or any amp without a circuit board is going to be a lot easier to work on. However, I wouldn't say they are maintenance free. First, they have a lot of tubes & if you carry spare tubes, it can be an investment: matched power, rectifier, & some 12AX/T7s tubes. Silverfaces can be noisey even if you retube the whole thing. Replacing all the caps can help but not cheap if you pay someone. A lot of headroom - a 70W pro-reverb will sound like a 100W amp. I find Fenders just too bright for my taste, but that varies of course.
I like my Mesa the best. It is quiet as can be, reverb is gourgeous. However, the newer ones have a circuit board, relays, a lot of tubes. A lot can go wrong. The newer ones not marketed to the hard rock & metal crowd tend to be 50W.
If you're going to go clean most of the time & use a reverb pedal, a single channel tube with no reverb or FX loop will be your best best in terms of simplicity - reduces 3 preamp tubes.
If you can find a solid state you like, the weight/volume-headroom ratio is going to beat the heck out of a tube amp. The power transformer is going to be a 1/3 size of a tube amp because you don't need to generate 500VDC & solid state doesn't require an output transformer. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 6 Apr 2015 7:29 pm
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I agree with the thought that a tube amp is not exactly a direction of reliability. Maybe not so much the amp but new production tubes can crap out just from vibrating in your trunk. After a long drive...I had a power tube short and blow some internal components... Further..tubes cost pretty good sized bills... Budget at least a hundred a year for average tubes and 200 if you want premium tubes...and another 100 for tech repairs if you are touring...
There is a small bit of love on the forum for Peavey Transtube guitar amps for use with steel. I use a TT Bandit to gig...been keeping my big iron at home...the bandit is a monitor sized lightweight amp that surprised me by how good it sounds in a mix. It has a pretty decent tube amp vibe as well.
Also...the traditional PV steel amps are the industry standard. Don't overlook the obvious. |
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Michael Todd
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2015 7:42 pm
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IMHO, The best sounding solid state amps in production are the Tech 21. Not sure if they come in high watt flavors.
In the quasi-vintage, check out the Yamaha 100W flavors from the late 70s, early 80s. The Gibson/Lab5 were nice SS amps, but maybe not so reliable. The Roland Jazz/Chorus are great guitar amps, but never heard a steel through one that I know about. The Cube models are great, but I like the older all-analog ones. I saw Steve Morse of Dixie Dregs in late 70s playing through an Ampeg solid state, which surprised me at the time. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 6 Apr 2015 7:44 pm
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If you set the knobs right, the Session 400 sounds remarkably Twin-like. And only costs $3-400.
Check out this 3-way amp comparison, between the Evans RE300, Ultralinear Twin, and Session 400.
Evans RE300 demo/shootout: http://youtu.be/nuZeewMS9qk
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 7 Apr 2015 1:44 am
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Fender tube amps are not reliable ? huh ?
Yeah I hear ya, my 70 Twin went non stop until I sold it in 94, yep a few tubes made noise now and then but the amp NEVER stopped working on a gig, of which there were 2 or 3 each week.
Then there was the 71 Twin which I acquired maybe 5 years ago ( just sold it ) it went non stop, never failed for the 5 years I owned it. Yep a noisy tube now and then , but it never failed.
Then , I guess I'll continue , the TWO HR Deluxes I had, still have one, never failed, and the HR Deville,owned it since 1999, it has never failed even with old tubes...
Yeh , don't gt a tube amp..they won't last .
Funny stuff aside, grab a 70's SF twin, any of them, invest a few bucks in caps and tubes and it will run for a decade or two. It will last longer than all 4 of the bands you are going to play in over the next 10 years !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 7 Apr 2015 8:09 am
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don't buy a crappy old beat up fender just because thats what you can afford. You wouldn't do that with a car!
Get something reliable, even if it takes you a bit longer to save up the money.
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 7 Apr 2015 9:08 am
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| You should be able to find a good twin for a good price. Recap it...check the tubes...run it.classic sound and will outlast you. I used a 50 year old fender bandmaster the other night. Everyone loved it. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 7 Apr 2015 9:10 am
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I have to admit, Tim has a point.
I had a chance to test drive one of his Milkman amps for an hour at Jim Palenscar's shop and was VERY impressed. It sounded freaking awesome.
I ultimately bought a Quilter Steelaire instead, because of its channel switching and powered effects loop. But I'm not 100% sure I made the right decision. If I had the bucks, I'd have bought both.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 7 Apr 2015 10:12 am
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| Bill Hatcher wrote: |
| You should be able to find a good twin for a good price. Recap it...check the tubes...run it.classic sound and will outlast you. I used a 50 year old fender bandmaster the other night. Everyone loved it. |
this is my point. You should find an amp that this has already been done to. Pretend that you are buying a car... don't buy one that needs a ton of new parts. Either buy a new one, or find a good used one. No sense spending good money on bad money.
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Stephen Abruzzo
From:
Philly, PA
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Posted 7 Apr 2015 10:28 am
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| Tim Marcus wrote: |
| [You should find an amp that this has already been done to. Pretend that you are buying a car... don't buy one that needs a ton of new parts. Either buy a new one, or find a good used one. No sense spending good money on bad money. |
Excellent point.....and I might add that this also applies to guitars and steels too.
No need to settle if you can. |
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John Russell
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 7 Apr 2015 5:59 pm Amps
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If you're playing for money your reputation is at stake every time. Don't gamble on the amp crapping out. Fender Twins are plentiful and sound great but we all know they're heavy and somewhat high maintenance. I've had my share; the last was a blackface re-issue bought used and cost me plenty in upkeep and embarrassment. After one very noisy night at a high-profile venue, it went away.
I have had good performance with the Roland Cube 60 and Cube 80. Really can't complain. With an extension speaker cab (EV 15) attached, the sound and volume is equal to any 85 watt Twin, probably louder.
Lately I'm using a Gallien Krueger MB200 bass amp with a Sica 15" neo speaker. My effects are a Roland RV-3 and a Boss '59 Bassman pedal. Nice light rig with good tone and volume. Often I'll add a Boss GE-7 and an old Boss DM2 analog delay. |
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James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 8 Apr 2015 6:39 am
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| Tim Marcus wrote: |
| Bill Hatcher wrote: |
| You should be able to find a good twin for a good price. Recap it...check the tubes...run it.classic sound and will outlast you. I used a 50 year old fender bandmaster the other night. Everyone loved it. |
this is my point. You should find an amp that this has already been done to. Pretend that you are buying a car... don't buy one that needs a ton of new parts. Either buy a new one, or find a good used one. No sense spending good money on bad money. |
But how is he to know a used amp that's "already been done to" was properly serviced by a competent tech? I'd suggest anyone buying a vintage amp factor in the cost of having a basic overhaul done. The vintage amp is still a good deal, if you didn't overpay.
Also, comparing new and reissue Fender amps to vintage ones, as is implicit in a few comments here, makes no sense. The quality and construction is completely different.
I've been using '60s vintage Fender amps for decades. I don't find them high maintenance, and never have had one crap out on me. Mine have all been properly serviced and maintained. Finding a competent tech can be a challenge depending on where you live. I learned to take care of them myself. |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 8 Apr 2015 8:19 am
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| James Hartman wrote: |
I've been using '60s vintage Fender amps for decades. I don't find them high maintenance, and never have had one crap out on me. Mine have all been properly serviced and maintained. Finding a competent tech can be a challenge depending on where you live. I learned to take care of them myself. |
This. Tubes are easy enough to replace but I find they last a surprisingly long time. I don't do my own caps but they can last for decades. My tube amps are really not that fussy.
I thought Peavey was king of reliability until my powered mixer crapped out after only 5 or 6 years. The Peavey authorized repair shop was unable to fix it and I had to buy a new power amp to run it through. Just goes to show that no one has a monopoly on reliability. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 8 Apr 2015 8:48 am
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just an example. here in atlanta...i just clicked on craigslist....you could probably dicker some on the price. there are lots of twins around...its a buyers market on them. the kids dont want them cause they dont distort. not enough people want them cause they are too heavy.
i personally wouldnt pay more than $500 for one. http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/msg/4935610211.html |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 8 Apr 2015 8:59 am
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As I mentioned earlier.... the biggest problem with tube amp reliability is the relative unreliability of new production tubes..
If a power tube fails it will likely take out some of the internals...I forget whether screen resistors or grid stoppers...been awhile.
There is a helluva pile of knowledge required to know which tubes and not all the same ... Called micro eq-ing....to buy...the ones that have the feel and tonality to maximize the potential of an amp. It takes years and thousands of dollars to get it right....hence....the Milkman... it is about know how. I have spent more coin on tubes and time auditioning them over the years than I spent on the amp! All my guitar pals do the same.... spend some time on the Boogie Board ot thegearpage and you will see that tube amps are an expensive obsession.
New Old Stock is the best way to go... but there goes another 500 bucks or so...the cost of a backup amp.
If this were a six string discussion... I would be on the other side...spend spend spend... the better part of the magic of tubes is the tonality and feel on the edge of breaking up...overdrive... there is a special feel in how they compress and how picking dynamics can color your expression. Etc... Steel players generally are not looking for those things...they want sustain and glissando...evenness...and smooth clean tones. Yeah...tubes can smooth and warm the tone...but that can be found in a tube preamp by Sarno...etc.
but for a newbie gigging steel player with 1000 budget. Not worth it. Something to aspire to over a few years.
Last edited by Tom Gorr on 8 Apr 2015 9:30 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 8 Apr 2015 9:14 am
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every thing about a twin reverb is already "right".
again....twins are only out of favor now because of the weight and the loudness and the kids want amps to sound like chainsaws.
small fender amps are in vogue. twins are not. they are a bargain if you can gig in situations where you can use one and you either have a roadie or a strong back.
i used to play guitar in a B3 organ trio in the 70s. i used TWO twins with EV speakers. biggest sound you could imagine. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 8 Apr 2015 9:38 am
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Sure...back in the 70s when you could still find RCA...GE...Mullards...TungSols...Svetlana....phillips Miniwatt...Siemens...Sylvania... Marconi...etc...new or at a decent prices.
None of those great tube manufacturers are in the businessof tubes anymore... and what we now have is New Sensor who has bought some of those trademarks and names their xxxxxx tubes after them. |
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Marty Holmes
From:
Magnolia ,TX USA
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Posted 8 Apr 2015 5:44 pm
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| Right on Tony Prior everyone else with negative comments about Fender twins could stand to soak some of this truthful knowledge up !!! |
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John Russell
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 8 Apr 2015 8:23 pm
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I guess everyone's experience is different. I don't abuse amps--I'm pretty careful loading and setting up. Maybe I'm just not lucky.
My first "Twin" was actually a Fender Vibrosonic--similar to a Twin. It was a silver face, maybe a 1975 model. Great sound but the tubes had to be replaced almost every year. When the tube sockets corroded and needed to be replaced, it got sold. Next Fender was a pretty cool Fender Concert--not the original with four 10s but the Rivera-era model with the single 12. Great sound and pretty portable but it got noisy--impossible to record with. Took it to three of the best amp techs in Austin and couldn't make it quiet. Sold it. Next was HR Deluxe (bought new) with the single 12. Again great sound but it needed service after about six months. Sold that. Later I acquired a reissue Twin--not sure the year. It got noisy and needed new caps, then the volume pots needed replaced. One night at the Broken Spoke, it started making sounds like bottle rockets exploding. Sold it.
I owned many different amps including several Peaveys; decent amps but lacking in tone (to my ear).
I've been playing thru a Roland Cube 80 for about the past five years. No problems and very good sound. I lately got the GK MB 200 running though a Sica 15" speaker with some simple stomp boxes. Very nice sound and plenty of juice.
I'm a working musician. I don't have time to fuss with amps that cost me time and money. I understand the lure of the classic gear and know that great tube amps have an appeal. I just prefer to spend my time playing and learning, not tinkering with old stuff. |
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