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Topic: Amp position when working with a sound man |
Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 8:30 pm |
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With this new band they have several sound men they like and they are all really good. So with that said I am now tilting my amp back up toward me, in front of and to the left of the steel. I sit stage left as I look out. I can also put my amp on a stand off stage. It keeps my stage volume down for the singers, let me hear every note.
The bottom line here is trusting the sound man to get you in the mix. There are many posts about sound men and how they mix, well here is for trying something new and different for me.
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 8:45 pm
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| Usually the "sound man" is the vocalist's bro-in-law, who knows next to nothing about sound. If that's the case, I like to place my amp squarely up his "woofer" |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 27 Mar 2015 8:57 pm
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I've found that if you want to be beefier in the house mix, don't point your amp at the sound person.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 28 Mar 2015 1:42 am
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I set up and play like there is no sound man. If there is he can set up mics however he decides but he has nothing to do with what I do and he shouldn't have anything to do with what you do either ! He is NOT part of the band even though more often than not he (they) will dictate what a band should do.
At a large club we no longer play the stage had at least 6 JBL 15"/horn wedges at the front of the stage pointing back at us. I knew we were in trouble , the sound guy told us he will control everything and don't worry he is feeding 2000 watts into those wedges so we will hear everything thru the wedges.
He was right. I heard nothing from my amp behind me or any other amp for that matter. I did heard all 2000 watts from the monitors in front of us.
Every drum, every cymbal, every guitar note, every singing note, every everything from that single 15" wedge in front of me @ 2000 watts !
Thank god for house sound guys !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2015 2:40 am
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| Monitors are usually the culprit behind excessive stage volume. |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
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Posted 28 Mar 2015 7:04 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
| At a large club we no longer play the stage had at least 6 JBL 15"/horn wedges at the front of the stage pointing back at us. |
Sounds like the Neighborhood Theater...
I always point my amp at the crowd. I've been to too many shows where the amps aren't, and too often there's not enough clarity from the guitars. I went to a Sturgill Simpson show recently where that was the case. "Little Joe" was playing amazing stuff all night, but the whole time I was wishing he had a twin reverb up on a chair. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 28 Mar 2015 7:39 am
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| Dan Beller-McKenna wrote: |
| Monitors are usually the culprit behind excessive stage volume. |
Truth. I find this the problem with bands that don't have a soundman. They adjust the monitor mix first, with no mains, and adjust them to be as loud as they would have the mains. I played a gig one time, where we forgot to bring the mains up for the first set. Dancers could hear the vocals on the dance floor and a few rows into the audience. The vocals just weren't as loud as normal. I always insist that a monitor be nowhere near me if possible. I don't need the vocals to tell where I am in a song.
I normally don't change where I put my amp. I just don't play as loud. I have set the amp on the ground tilted up at me a couple of feet behind and to the left of me at one venue.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2015 8:36 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| I've found that if you want to be beefier in the house mix, don't point your amp at the sound person. |
I second this
_________________
Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 28 Mar 2015 8:50 am
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My post was all about trusting the sound man to do it right. For years I had no trust so just pointed my amp to the audience and turned up.
This new band wants less stage volume so I am doing my best. On the first gig we did the lead singer told the sound man to turn the monitors down, guess it is working.
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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chuck lemasters
From:
Jacksonburg, WV
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Posted 28 Mar 2015 8:51 am
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| It has gotten to the point that, if given a choice, I will choose no monitor, and if I have to have a monitor, I'll point it at the other guys in the band. The monitors are usually so loud, I'll hear all I need, and then some, from their monitors. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 Mar 2015 9:06 am
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Larry, my last band miced all the amps, and kept stage volume down. LOVED it. Can TALK to the other folks during songs, and no ringing ears on the drive home.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 28 Mar 2015 2:37 pm
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| Im usually on stage right and have my 2X12 combo amp on its case at ear level when sitting. I place it behind and to the right at a diagonal towards me, so that it doesn't hit anyone but me. I like to get my level low enough to where I can hear fine, and the rest of the guys ask the sound man to add me in their monitors. This way the sound man turns me up in the house, and the stage volume is balanced. |
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Greg Johnson
From:
Greencastle, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2015 7:55 am
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Lately, it seems that most sound guys don't normally work with steel players. The best are those that recognize this and let you do your own thing instead of trying to 'Even' the mix in the mains. So I still place my amp on it's stand behind me on the left and go on with my bad self
_________________
MSA CLassic SD-10
92 Emmons LII
79 Super Pro
Quilter TT
Evans FET 500
Fender Twin 65 RI
American Takimine |
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Walter Killam
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2015 10:32 am
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The lower you can keep your stage volume, the more control you give to the sound man. If you trust the guy then find your tone at the lowest possible volume.
I've run sound more than a few times in the past and always request that the band set the lowest viable stage volume that they can so I can maintain control over the house volume. When a band comes in with 2 Marshall stacks, I know I'm in trouble.
When I work with a good band, I'll build extra headroom into the Lead Instruments Channels, and let them drive solo volumes on their own by either using their volume control or stepping into the mic for acoustic instruments.
If you've ever seen Marty Stuart or Elvis Costello live, you'll see that the Sound person spends most of the show with their arms crossed because the PA is just handling reinforcement of the stage mix. Good players work together on stage and don't require a lot of knob twisting at the board.
On a personal note, almost every time my band plays at any of the local Casinos, we make it a point to get to know the sound tech, explain that we don't want a Hip Hop mix, and that we don't need to part our hair with the monitors. Once these guys figure out what we're about, they set it and forget it, and spend their time working the scene or texting.
_________________
Mostly junque with a few knick-knacks that I really can't do without! |
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Walter Killam
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2015 10:42 am follow up
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as a follow up to my previous post - Larry if you trust the sound man, then set the amp as close to you as you can and still let the sound develop, Steel amps in particular I find need some room for the sound to develop, and personally I need minimum 6-10 feet for my Evans FET 500 to sound right to me. From there you'll want to place the amp in a way that minimizes wash over others in the band to avoid on stage volume wars.
I saw Pat Travers several years ago and noticed that he was plenty loud in the PA, but I wasn't hearing much from his amp. When I got close enough to take a look, I realized that he had a guitar monitor speaker in a wedge in front of him next to his vocal monitor so that that he could operate as true foldback and still get the volume needed to drive his amps correctly. (great show too!)
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Mostly junque with a few knick-knacks that I really can't do without! |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 31 Mar 2015 11:32 am
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I have been Ampless for 12 years, it's a soundman's dream....I also sound check with my monitor off (for line setting) so he can EQ and work the isolated sound first...Then we do a band sound check for an overall tweakout.
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A.K.A Chappy. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 31 Mar 2015 6:02 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| I've found that if you want to be beefier in the house mix, don't point your amp at the sound person. |
I third this. I will point my amp anywhere but at the sound booth - or at lead singers, as steel and guitar can seriously distract them because they occupy the same basic midrange frequencies. If I need some projection out in the room, I'll point my amp out there but away from the sound booth and singers. But I prefer to just treat my amp as a monitor for me only.
I'm with you on your original post, Larry. OK, there are complete meathead sound "engineers" (actually sound "manglers") out there. But they're not all meatheads - I know some excellent sound engineers, and they can be your best friend if you will just work with them. The key is to be able to recognize the difference between engineers and manglers and act accordingly. My experience, anyway. |
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