| Author |
Topic: Chord Substitution Question |
Mike Selecky
From:
BrookPark, Ohio
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Posted 7 Mar 2015 2:22 pm |
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Looking at bars 11 and 12 of BE's "Blues to Use" course: http://www.buddyemmons.com/BluesToUse.htm -
in bar 11, over the G7 change, he plays what is essentially a C#9 (all of the notes are not
present in this inversion), and over the F change, similarly, a "B9" is played.
Ok, with the rhythm providing the G in bar 11, and the 3rd(b) at string 6 and the b7(f) at
string 8, a G7 can be implied - but how does the note at string 5 (d#) work - is it implying an
extended chord such a 13th? Is there an easier way to think about this?
| Tab: |
11 12
1 6 2- 5
Bb G7 Cm F
1 ______________________________________________________
2 ____________________________|_________________________|
3 ____________________________|____3(k)_________________|
4 ____________________________|_________________________|
5 __________________8_________|____3___________6________|
6 ________10________8(6)______|____3___________6(6)_____|
7 ________10__________________|____3____________________|
8 __________________8_________|____3___________6________|
9 ____________________________|_________________________|
10____________________________|_________________________|
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 7 Mar 2015 2:45 pm
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Tritone substitution.
The C#7 can be played over a G7 effectively.
The only note in that triad not in a G7 is that C#. It makes a cool flavoring.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Hermitage, TN
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Posted 7 Mar 2015 7:08 pm
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| Cool thing about tritone substitution is that the 3rd and b7th tones of the original chord, are the b7th and 3rd tones of the tritone sub chord (they flip). Also, if you play lydian dominate (mixolydian with a raised 4th) off the tritone sub chord you get a fully altered dominate scale to the original chord. It sounds confusing, but it actually makes playing altered lines easier. |
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Mike Selecky
From:
BrookPark, Ohio
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Posted 8 Mar 2015 6:48 am
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Thanks Lane - I guess it works even though the c# root note isn't present in the inversion shown, but is available on the 9th string if desired.
Will have to investigate this device further! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 8 Mar 2015 7:07 am
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I misread things. The D# is the outside note, which means that, since the tritone of G7 and C#7 are the same (F/E# and B), that triad can also be thought of as G augmented 7
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2015 7:31 am
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| Thanks for this. Lately I've been musing about using the E raise (my F lever) for a half diminished as well as the 7th up 3 from the open position. Using squirrely logic- if the E raise is a half diminished as well as a 7th- and if it repeats every 3 frets like all good diminisheds do, then you should also be able to play a G7 w the E raise at 0, 3,6,9, and 12th frets (the 0 and 12th fret here being the aforementioned C#7). It doesn't always seem to work as it can be a bit outside but opens up the neck a bit. |
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Mike Selecky
From:
BrookPark, Ohio
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Posted 8 Mar 2015 9:30 am
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Lane, I think your original assessment is correct - the d# note probably functions as the ninth tone in the C# chord. I tend to favor the simpler explanation - it makes my brain hurt less 
I went over this material some time back when Buddy graciously gifted it to us, learned the mechanics, but now revisiting it to understand where Buddy is drawing his notes from. |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2015 10:54 am
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Am I missing something here?
C#7 = C# F G# B
G7 = G B D F
The C# doesn't fit over the G triad, but neither does the G#. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2015 11:29 am
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| Quote: |
Am I missing something here?
C#7 = C# F G# B
G7 = G B D F
The C# doesn't fit over the G triad, but neither does the G#. |
Right you are. And that's sort of the point. If you're playing a certain style of music, say, jazz or blues, playing C#7 over the band's G7 introduces some color and tension. It's specifically those two notes you mentioned that give it more of an "outside" sound than just playing a straight G7. Give it a try on any song and you'll see. 
Last edited by Tucker Jackson on 8 Mar 2015 11:33 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 8 Mar 2015 11:33 am
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Right. That's why I said the D# works more like a #5 than a 9th to the sub chord (especially when the band is on G)
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 8 Mar 2015 1:02 pm
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Tritone substitutions are simplest when the 5th of the chord is omitted altogether, which is fine as a 7th chord is quite recognisable without it.
C#7 = C#, E#(F), B
G7 = G, B, F
If you include a flat 5th in each you get
C#7b5 = C#, F, G, B
G7b5 = G, B, C#, F
which are the same.
If you put in a sharp 5th you get
C#7#5 = C#, F, A, B
G7#5 = G, B, D#, F
These last two are also hexatonic (whole-tone) chords so they do not clash with any of the ones above.
When I played bass from charts I always looked out for 7b5 chords as the b5 often sounded better than the root.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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