Extended E12 chopedent info wanted!

Sonny Miller · From: Lino Lakes, Minnesota, USA

I might want to order a 12 string extended E9 in the future, and I am looking for some suggestions, for the chopedent. Any help out there?
I have Carl Dixons 12U , and was very much impressed and now want to have the 12Ex, along the same line?
Can it be done with less pedals, and knees? And what are the pluses and minus to the 12 Ex? Thanks

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

The Extended E9th is simply an E9th with two low strings (G# and E) added. This gives the pedal steel the range of a standard 6 string guitar, making it easy to swap parts with a guitarist.

The second pedal typically raises the low G# to A along with the other two G# strings, and most players also raise the low E to F on their standard F lever. There are no special changes in the extended E9th. Like its 10 string counterpart, extended E9th is usually set up with 3 or 4 pedals and 4 or 5 knee levers.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

The objective of the Extended E9 is to lower the range of the tuning by adding two lower strings.

The objective of the E9/B6 Universal tuning is to include the most common pedal and lever changes from E9 and C6 into a single 12-string tuning.

Which is better or 'gets it all' depends upon what you're looking for. If it's all E9, Extended E9 is fine. If it also includes getting all of the C6 sounds, the universal is a better way to go.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

Even though an extE9 might not have the traditional C6 changes, it still might be capable of alot more than the usual E9 approach. (Lest we forget Randy Beavers

)

I have an outside "zero" pedal on mine that started out as an experiment, but quickly turned into a staple for my jazzier leanings. It lowers the 12th string (E)to C#, and raises the 9th (D)to D#. Other than that it's pretty stock, but now it seems way more to me than the basic E9 we all know and love.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

For Ext E9th, one possible idea...
Strings 1-7 = standard 3x5 E9th.
String 8 = E (add E to F# to C pedal in addition to E>F and E>Eb)
String 9 = B (raise to C# on the A and C pedals, D on the 2nd string D# to D lever, and Bb on the B>Bb lever).
String 10 = G# (raise to A on B-pedal)
String 11 = E (raise to F# on C pedal, F on E>F lever, Eb on E>Eb lever).
String 12 = B (Lower from B to A on the A-pedal, Lower from B to Bb on the Bb knee lever, raise to C# on the C-pedal).

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

It's not really an E9th if you don't have a D string, Pete.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

If I played straight E9th, extended E9th would be the only way to go. In fact after playing the 12 string, there would be no question about using extended E9th if all I played was E9th.

Having grown up playing lap steels and being used to multiple lap tunings and migrating to a Fender Custom triple neck, I gotta have that C6 bottom. So the universal is the way to fly in my case.

You might want to use either system depending on your situation if you are considering going to a 12 string.

carl

Winnie Winston · From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ * R.I.P.

I've been playing an extended E9 since 1973 or so. My copedant is at http://julianwinston.com . I lower the bottom E to C# on the same knee that raises the other two Es to F.
I've messed around with a few changes since I started but what's listed on my website is what I've had since 1982.
I really long for a bottom B, but that would make it a 13 and when I got it, Joe Kline wasn't building 13s! Tried a few "universals" but never liked getting rid of the "D" note in the 9th position. I use it a lot, and base a number of things I play on using the 9th string as the root.

JW

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I played an E9/B6 universal for about 20 or so years and went a different route a couple of years ago where I dropped the low B and returned the 9th string but tuned it to C#. I raise it to D along with my 2nd string to D. I've found a bunch of stuff I like doing this. When the E's are lowered it's like a C6th with the D string added in the 7th slot and dropping the low C. Some players are doing this now and getting some good stuff with it. The idea for this came from some Dobro things I'd been doing with a G6 tuning with an E in the middle of it.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I wanted to try the 12 string, extended E9th tuning as I'm thinking of having a new pedal steel guitar built. I traded a Sho~Bud LDG guitar for a S-12 Sho~Bud with Bobbe Seymour so I could try it out. To tell you the truth, I am just not comfortable playing a 12 string guitar. I'm sure I could get used to it in time but I would rather spend the time getting better acquainted with the C6th tuning.

Erv

Sonny Miller · From: Lino Lakes, Minnesota, USA

Thanks everyone for your quick feedback. I have been gathering up a lot of ideas, for the last couple of weeks, on the 12U and the 12EX, so at least now i have some new ideas to go with.
I started out trying to help a freind , did that and decided to use the forum for my own source also.

I play guitar and am trying to get a BLUES, pentatonic, handle on the Pedal Steel also.

So all this will help out alot. Thanks

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Extended E9th is great for blues.

Drew Howard · From: 48854

I am ordering an SD-12 (a 12 on a D-10 frame) and this is the tuning chart:



                                      


        LKL  LKV  LKR  P1   P2   P3   P4   P5   RKL  RKR    + - 


1  F#  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |+G# |    |   1 .  |


2  Eb  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |+E  |-D  |   1 1  |


3  G#  |    |    |    |    |+A  |    |    |    |    |    |   1 .  | 


4  E   |+F  |    |-Eb |    |    |+F# |    |    |    |    |   2 1  |


5  B   |    |-Bb |    |+C# |    |+C# |-A  |    |    |    |   2 2  |


6  G#  |    |    |    |    |+A  |    |    |-E  |-F# |    |   1 2  |


7  F#  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |   . .  |


8  E   |+F  |    |-Eb |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |   1 1  |


9  D   |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |-C# |   . 1  |


10 B   |    |-Bb |    |+C# |    |    |-A  |    |    |    |   1 2  |


11 G#  |    |    |    |    |+A  |    |    |    |    |    |   1 .  |


12 E   |-C# |    |    |    |    |    |    |-A  |    |    |   . 1  |

No second string D/C# half-stop.

Pedal 5 will be the “experiment” pedal, I wouldn’t have both pulls activated at the same time.

cheers,
Drew

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Drew's Website

[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 17 May 2004 at 11:42 AM.]

[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 17 May 2004 at 11:44 AM.]

[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 17 May 2004 at 11:45 AM.]

Leon Eneboe · From: Sisseton, South Dakota, USA

Edwin, I see you live in Minnesota. It might be a good idea for you to talk to Bill Rudolph of the Williams Guitar Company. He is located at Oak Grove Mn. A year ago this month I purchased a beautiful El2 from Bill with 5 knees and 7 floor pedals, all set up for E9th. I really love this guitar and the experience of meeting Bill and seeing his shop was worth a lot in itself. I live in South Dakota, and it was well worth the drive, you living in Minnesota, I would sure consider this. The Williams guitars play great and look great too. Leon Eneboe
Williams E12, ShoBud LDG, Nashville l000 and Nashville ll2 (2).

Joerg Hennig · From: Bavaria, Germany

Pete B.,

isn´t what you suggested basically the same tuning as a Universal? I believe especially the C pedal will become quite stiff with four pulls on it, the F and Eb levers with 3 each probably also. With a tuning like that as a starting point, instead of tinkering with the three E9 pedals, it would make much more sense to add the B6 changes IMO, of course then it will be a Universal, not an Extended E9th.

Regards, Joe H.

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

Here is my Extended E9 setup.
Yes there is pedal-changes that you would find on the universal but you wont be able to transfer C6 playing to strings 12 thru 2 as on the universal. The E9 possibilities on the other hand are totally awesome. I could probably do without RKR2 but the rest of the setup is what I prefer.

S12 extended E9



    LKL2                               RKR1  


  LKL1 LKV LKR P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7 RKL   RKR2


F#                      F               G#    


Eb                                  D-C#      


G#                 A                          


E   F   F#  Eb       F#                       


B              C#    C#       C# Bb           


G#    G            A       A# A#              


F#                      F               G#    


E   F       Eb                                


D                                    C#    Eb 


B              C#                Bb           


G#    G            A       A#                 


E                    F# C#

Bengt Erlandsen

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 19 May 2004 at 12:22 PM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Since we're posting them, I might as well add mine. I want to add the caveat, though, that I wouldn't put the E to F# on the vertical lever if I had it to do over again. I'd use a standard C pedal and put the Jeff lever (B to A#) on the vertical.

I've found the low E to D to be very useful, and it works well on the standard C pedal.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 19 May 2004 at 12:37 PM.]

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Leon,
Yes, I was intending for Bill to build me a D-12/10 guitar, 12 strings on the E9th neck and 10 strings on the C6th neck. He said he would do it. However, I think that I'll go with just a straight D-10 guitar but with a slug of pedals and levers. He builds a beautiful guitar and I want one in lacquer.
Erv

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I just ordered a new keyless D-12 crossover from Bill (Williams Guitar Company). It will have extended E9 on the front neck and my C6add9 on the back.

Drew Howard · From: 48854

D-12? Ooooo......

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Drew's Website

[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 19 May 2004 at 06:08 PM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Ebony stained birdseye maple with pearl inlay.

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