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Topic: Guitar Gets Hot, And Strings Go Sharp? |
Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 28 Feb 2015 2:56 pm |
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We recently played at a private party, outside on a ranch, here in South Texas. We were setting up in the sun and the temp was in the high 80's. I set up my guitar first and then carted in my amp and other stuff. When I checked my tuning, the guitar had gone way sharp, about a quarter of a step. I loosened the strings and retuned. After we got the sound system set up, I checked my tuning and noticed that all the strings were sharp again. Perhaps the body was expanding, in the heat? I've never had that happen before. I moved my guitar inside a room and came back a few hours later. Temps had dropped and the guitar and tuning were stable. I've never had this happen before.
_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 28 Feb 2015 3:10 pm
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I guess you haven't much of that problem lately!  |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 28 Feb 2015 3:18 pm
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That evening, temps dropped down to the frigid lower 70's, in mid February.  |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2015 3:40 pm
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Rub it in, rub it in! Going down to -4 here tonight!  |
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Brian Brgant
From:
Vermont, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2015 4:42 pm
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Hmmm. - 4. Can I come over? I could use a break from the cold up my way.
Funny about the guitar. My house temp varies a good bit and I couldn't understand why when my guitar was cold, the strings went flat? If the strings get cold and shrink shouldn't they go sharp? I came to same conclusion in the opposite direction. The mass of the guitar is the determining factor. It is when it shrinks or swells,not the strings, that the strings go sharp or flat. Or that is my take on it? |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 28 Feb 2015 4:46 pm
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| i know temperature changes things, but i can never remember which way. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 28 Feb 2015 6:20 pm
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It's really very simple. Wood expands when warmer and the bridge and the nut are attached to the wood so when it gets warmer they get pulled farther away from each other which means the string is being stretched more which in turn means it will get sharper. The opposite happens when it cools down.
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www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Emmett Roch
From:
Texas Hill Country
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Posted 28 Feb 2015 6:34 pm
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My GFI goes sharp when it gets cold. The aluminum body is not going to affect the maple die board very much, so it's usually within just a few cents.
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On Earth, as it is in Texas |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 28 Feb 2015 7:26 pm
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ok, i get it.
warms up (sharp)
cools down (flat) |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 28 Feb 2015 9:01 pm
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| chris ivey wrote: |
ok, i get it.
warms up (sharp)
cools down (flat) |
However....I have had situations where an a/c vent is blowing right on me. The a/c kicks in and the strings cool and go UP in pitch. Then the a/c cycles off and the strings warm up and go DOWN in pitch. That happens pretty quickly. I suspect it takes a little longer for a guitar body to heat up or cool down enough to change the pitch of the strings. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 12:47 am
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| chris ivey wrote: |
| i know temperature changes things, but i can never remember which way. |
maybe that's why i get confused. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 4:30 am
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| chris ivey wrote: |
warms up (sharp)
cools down (flat) |
It's good to leave yourself little notes lying around.
A piano has one ton more wood than a guitar. The body doesn't move; the soundboard has to give.
If it gets humid, the pitch goes up.
If it gets cold, the pitch goes up.
How come they're almost always flat?
That's why I switched to pedal steel. A steel body without a soundboard should stay in tune.
Now I find out they're mostly not made of steel at all.
No wonder my bar plays sharp. I mean flat. |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 10:02 am
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| I've always experienced that situation of going sharp, when, the steel warms up. I mentioned it here, a while back and was corrected, as if I was an idiot, by a well known poster here. Didn't want to get into a pissing contest, so, I let the reply go unanswered by me. But, I knew that I was right in my thoughts and let the know it all expound on what he knew. To each his own, I guess, misguided or not. |
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Don Chance
From:
North Texas, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 1:49 pm
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| Emmett Roch wrote: |
| My GFI goes sharp when it gets cold. The aluminum body is not going to affect the maple die board very much, so it's usually within just a few cents. |
My BMI does the same.
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"Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist." Pablo Picasso |
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David Spires
From:
Millersport, OH
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 2:43 pm
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It must have some basis in the design/construction of the guitar, because I have always experienced warmer/flat, colder/sharp, open and with pedal/knees too on my Carter, MSA, and Sierra.
Here's wishing I could always play at a nice, consistent 70'F!
David Spires
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2021 MSA Legend XL 10&7; Asher Electro-Hawaiian Junior Lap Steel; '79 OMI Dobro 66 w/ Scheerhorn cone and setup; '64 Hand-wired Re-issue Fender Princeton Reverb |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 7:31 pm
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Glad I thought of that issue when I modified my Dekley S10 to have a floating neck in laminated (2 solid slabs) aluminum - 20mm thick, that carries the changer independent of the body. By balancing the neck relative to the body - attaching it firmly around 12th fret and not further up towards the changer - that's the "floating" part, and making sure the neck could not push against the nut, the expansion / contraction (change of distance between bridge and nut) with temperature was cut in half.
It was all a bit of guesswork, but this balancing-act between nut and changer, and how I locked the stop-plate to the body-frame, happened to line up well with how the strings expand and contract with temperature, making the "modified contraption" fairly pitch-stable in conditions with both quick and slow changes from below freezing to well above 30degC. The only condition is that the entire body and strings are exposed to the same temperature-change.
So, if nothing else, I know the problem can be minimized.
Now, my GFI, MSA (and a couple of other PSGs I happen to have) are a different story - they all go sharp or flat with temperature in their own unique ways. But, I can live with that as long as at least one PSG - my preferred one - is always in "fighting mode" regardless of temperature (and most other variables). |
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Norbert Dengler
From:
germany
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Posted 1 Mar 2015 11:42 pm
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whatever it does...
you`ll have to tune it!  |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 2 Mar 2015 9:27 am
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| Norbert Dengler wrote: |
whatever it does...
you`ll have to tune it! |
...but not as often  |
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Kyd Brenner
From:
Washington, DC/Harman WV
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Posted 7 Mar 2015 11:51 am
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Years ago when I was playing regular gigs always had this problem, primarily in winter when LeGrande would travel in trunk for up to an hour in very cold weather. My trick was to get set up very first thing, retune to a few cents flat on all the strings and drop an electric blanket on very low temp over the guitar before I helped set up sound. After about 15 minutes I'd retune, but usually everything had come up to very close to pitch. Take the blanket off and do one final minor adjustment right before starting when the guitar had stabilized at temp of whatever room we were in. Two big advantages - I was in good tune for start of gig, and the guys preferred that I be in good tune to having me help carry all the heavy stuff in!
Unfortunately I never devised a drop-on air conditioner to deal with hot outdoor gigs. |
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