Cajun G on MSA 10 string

Andrew Srubas · From: Minneapolis, MN

I am very new to Steel. I got a lap steel about last spring and was learning some cajun G. ( I'm primarily a fiddle player but wanted to branch out ) Around the end of July I picked up an MSA Super Sustain ( 10 string 3 pedal four knee ). I managed to set it for E9 and was messing around with some Tom Brumley stuff but want to get back to working on those classic Cajun turns.

How are some of you Cajun G folks setting up your guitars. I really have no what to do. I've heard some folks are using E9 but I feel like I want to try the G thing again.

What should I do?

AJ

Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Andrew, send me an email with your phone number. Be glad to discuss some options.
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

You might consider getting a D-10 or 12, with an E9 one one neck and the Cajun tuning on the other.
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Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
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Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Andrew, you could tune it to D9th. Then strings 3-6, 8, & 10 provide about 95% of what you need. Just change ur string gauges.

Look at my website and find the free Cajun Steel Course. I was using E9th but the structure of the tuning is the same.

Good luck!!
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Andrew Srubas · From: Minneapolis, MN

is that what most folks are doing? D9? a d 10 is not really an option due to lack of funding but even if had one, the question would still exist. How would I set up the G neck? Should I stick to a straight steel no pedals? At this point, I don't have the time to be learning a bunch of Tom Brumley stuff and keep up with fiddle, not to mention that I just don't have an outlet to play that stuff where I do to play cajun. So I'm fine with the limitations of a G tuning for now.

AJ

Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Andrew you get the best of both worlds. The only guy playing D9th is doing due to strong breakage---I think. I'm driving right now so I'll call you to explain.
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Andrew Srubas · From: Minneapolis, MN

Well I guess more I meant learning an instrument plus a genre. I already spend a lot of time critically listening to cajun music for the fiddle parts. I already have repatoire and knowledge. I like Bakersfield sound and listen to it a lot but not as critically. Really though, the biggest issue is outlet. A few months of woodshedding on cajun steel and I can go to jams or makes friends suffer. Don't really have an outlet for playing Buck Owens covers. The idea of learning a complex instrument is less daunting than the idea of not being able to play with folks.

Anyway, Marty was very helpful to me and I'm going to try the tuning he learned on and see where that puts me. I will at the very least be in a place to understand what limitations I'm willing to work with and which I'm not.

Thanks all!

Jack Aldrich · From: Washington, USA

Larry Waisner · Posted 7 Nov 2014 4:58 am **Cajun "G" Tuning**

Is there a copedent chart available for cajun tuning?
Larry

Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Larry,
I sited an 8-string tuning to Andrew over the phone yesterday. Maybe he could put it on paper and post it. If not, I'll try to do it this weekend.

In short, it's basically a G6th extended Dobro tuning with the typical changes that are on E9th. I'm using my phone right now so I'll post the open tuning starting with a high "G" note.

G
D
B
G
E
D
B
G

This is the tuning I started on when I was 11years old on my Fender 400. I was told that most every Cajun steeler was using it or something very close. SeveralCajun records recorded between 1965 and 1980 will be on a Fender(with/without pedals) except for the Blackie Forestier records where Jessie Stuted is using his Emmons PP.

As I stated, I'll try to post a Copedant later but you could look at that tuning and imagine where the typical E9th changes are EXCEPT that, back then, we only used those changes on strings 1-4. It hasn't evolved much since because we all moved on to E9th and C6th. In fact, until I got my Fender 2000 recently I'd been using a Marrs Cat-Can set on top of my back neck.

IF THERE'S INTEREST I'LL PUT TOGETHER A SHORT COURSE/PRESENTATION AND PRESENT AT A STEEL SHOW.....POSSiBLY at NO CHARGE.....we need more interest in advancing the steel in Cajun Music.
Meanwhile, go to my website and click on links for a PDF of a Cajun Steel Course I offered back in 1993.

Have to go before I get caught with my phone in a meeting.....Lol
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Below is the first Cajun Copedant I was exposed to at 11 years old. There are players still using this or something very similar. In fact, Orsey Vanicor still plays a Fender 400 and I'm pretty sure this is his copendant. You could easily take a modern guitar and add more changes.

1.G
2.D
3.B
4.G
5.E
6.D
7.B
8.G

On a Fender 400 I had the following changes:
Pedal 1 raised string 2 to E
Pedal 2 raised string 3 to C
Pedal 3 lowered string 4 to F#
Pedal 4 lowered string 1 to F#

Hope that helps......
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Andrew Srubas · From: Minneapolis, MN

Sorry to revive this dying horse but I have but working on this stuff a bit and referred back to this discussion just now only to realize I have to different descriptions of the copedent.

Marty,

When we spoke on the phone, you described pedal 3 as lowering my THIRD string from a "B" to an "A". In the discussion, you have it as pedal 3 lowering my Fourth string from a "G" to and "F#".

Did I mess something up or could you do either? What about doing both so that I could get an entire 5 chord from any bar position?

Also, does anyone know Randall Foreman's Copedent is? Someone took some video for me of him playing and I have been working on his turns but can't quite tell where he is at.

I am also struggling to hear what people are doing when they aren't taking a break. (IE during vocals or accordion or fiddle) Any suggestions?

THANKS!

AJ

Larry Waisner · Posted 28 Feb 2015 7:17 am **G Tuning**

Thanks Marty!!!
Larry

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I don't know enough about playing cajun to comment on anything but your last paragraph, Andrew. But music is music, so I'll offer a bit of advice for what to play when not soloing.
Work out with the fiddle and accordion who plays fills when. Play simple fills between singers' lines when it's your turn.
Most cajun I've heard has a dance groove churning from guitar, bass, drum, and fiddle and accordion kinda keeping their own thing going.
Whenever I've been in a band larger than 4 pieces, before I go to play something, I ask either "am I going to make the song better, or cluttered?", or "do I NEED to play this, or does the gang have this covered?"

Most of the time, the answer is "put yer hands in yer lap and watch the dancers."
When you play something, it has more impact.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

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