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Topic: Sho-Bud Crossover |
Jim Venverloh
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2012 6:58 am |
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I am relatively new to the world of PSG. Played for a few years in the 70's then quit to pursue a drinking career. Started playing again about 3 years ago. Been wanting a "vintage" Bud or Emmons. I have been offered what seems to be a "good deal" on a Sho-Bud Crossover. Now my question: Can these guitars be successfully converted into a SD-10?? If so......is there one particular builder that stands out as doing awesome conversions??? Also been offered a Pro III Bud. What about a straight "tune-up" for that model. Thanks for your help!!
Jim V |
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Gary Lee
From:
Dayton, Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2012 3:57 pm Builder
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Check with James Morehead, He does great work.Gary.  |
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Dave O'Brien
From:
Florida and New Jersey
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Posted 25 Jul 2012 4:16 pm ?
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If you want an SD-10 why not buy an SD-10 instead of destroying a D-10.?
_________________
Dave O'Brien
Emmons D-10, CMI D-10, Fender Deluxe Reverb, PV 112, Fender Pro Reverb
www.myspace.com/daveobrienband |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Jul 2012 7:08 am
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I would steer clear of the crossover. They are very difficult to upgrade, due to the nature of the original design. Most never worked very well very long out of the factory. Look for an early roundfront singleneck with rack and barrel. THAT's where the vintage tone lives. Pro III's are ok if you get a good one. Trouble is, you don't want just any model just because it has a Shobud decal on it. The different models varied in performance as well as tone.
For instance, take a crossover---you CAN convert it, but you will be upside down money wise. I refuse to work on them anymore. It's the old addage--throwing good money after bad. Pick a better model. YMMV
_________________
"Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement"~old cowboy proverb.
shobud@windstream.net |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 26 Jul 2012 10:09 am
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From my own personal experience, Mr. Morehead is putting the good mojo down. Take heed.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Jim Venverloh
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 26 Jul 2012 12:17 pm Thank You
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Thanks for the sage advice. I really appreciate it. Thanks to Dave for opening my eyes about destroying a double neck to convert it to a single neck. There are plenty of LDG's out there if that is the route I want to go. Reminds me of the music store owner that wanted me to re-wire and re-finish my '63 Strat. What a TRAGEDY that would have been
jv |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 27 Jul 2012 8:50 am
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I have two Crossovers. Great tone, and they can play in tune if worked on. The concept was excellent. Apart from being able to use more pedals it meant that you could be on the C6 neck but still have the pedals within easy reach of your left foot without changing playing positions.
But they're heavy, and they don't like to be moved around a lot. They're perfect for someone who plays at home and never performs in public, but take one on the road and the disturbance caused by taking it down and putting it back up could mean that you won't get it in tune.
I hate to see D10s converted to SD10s. To me, it's vandalising a piece of history. |
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Louie Hallford
From:
denison tx
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Posted 17 Aug 2012 2:26 pm
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My first double neck was a cross over. As one of the worlds greatest players "supposedly" said "one of the best steel guitar builing ideas he ever saw,-- that didn't work."
Mine was a rattling piece of junk. I tied the changeover lever down with a piece of baling wire to keep it from jumping out of the E9 tuning as I was trying to play it, to the "nothing" tuning which was bits and pieces of c6 and e9..Beautiful maple and mahogany cabinet however. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 17 Aug 2012 5:32 pm
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A coincidence that this subject is brought up right as I have been pulling my Crossovers out of storage and tuning them up. Magnificent machines. Having bought and played with many pedal steels since I originally bought them, I've now come full circle, and appreciate them even more. Rugged, with great tone. I won't be putting them away again for a long time. For me, the Sho-Bud Crossover is the crême de la crême.
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Dan Dunne
From:
Asheville, North Carolina
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Posted 26 Feb 2015 8:51 am how is crossover mechanism "supposed" to work?
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So I was looking at the Crossover last night, and I think maybe mine is not hooked up correctly.
With the crossover lever engaged one way, the A, B, C pedals work on the E9 neck. Switching the lever the other way, the other 4 pedals work for the C6 neck. I thought that switching the lever was supposed to switch all pedals to one neck or the other?
Maybe it is due to the fact that the crossover mechanism was disconnected at one time...but the previous owner had said he reconnected it.
I just want to know for sure how this is "supposed" to work...I think I know, just looking for confirmation.
Maybe I'll just leave it as is for now...I'll have 3 x 4 on the E9 neck and 4 x 4 on the C6.
_________________
Sho Bud Crossover D10 (blonde)
Fender Brownface Pro
Fender Brownface Reverb
Fender Telecaster FMT HH
Washburn banjo
OM-200 omnichord
Digitech GNX3000 recording station
Harmonicas & other toys! |
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Dan Dunne
From:
Asheville, North Carolina
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Posted 26 Feb 2015 9:02 am
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Ok, I found an email from the original owner (great guy) on how HE used the guitar, anyway...
So I'm good. I think this guitar is fairly customizable...I could make it so all the pedals will switch necks, if I want (from what I understand)...but for now, time to focus on technique. I'm just glad I can have a "normal" 3x4 setup on this guitar...should make it easier to learn.
"...All the knee levers won’t work on the C6 neck. Only the original one will. When you look at the underside of the guitar, you can see that they’re mechanically different than the others. With the crossover lever down for the E9 neck, the first 3 pedals and all four levers should work. Sometimes the reason they seem not to work is not in the pedal itself, but in the tuning on the changer end of the guitar. On the C6 neck, I didn’t try to tune the pedals and that one lever because I didn’t know for sure what they should do as far as raising or lowering the tone. I worked with the E9 neck quite a bit before I shipped to make sure it would tune. It could have slipped during shipping and since some things were removed for packing, though. It will tune and stay in tune, at least with the crossover lever in its down position..."
_________________
Sho Bud Crossover D10 (blonde)
Fender Brownface Pro
Fender Brownface Reverb
Fender Telecaster FMT HH
Washburn banjo
OM-200 omnichord
Digitech GNX3000 recording station
Harmonicas & other toys! |
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Jack Goodson
From:
new brockton,alabama (deceased)
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Posted 26 Feb 2015 10:30 am Sho bud crossover
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| I bought a d 10 crossover in 1970....serial number is ....7545....some one took it from the trunk of my car (without my permission) and . I keep hoping they will bring it back....thanks jack |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2015 11:13 am
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I had one in about 1970. Beautiful tone!. I could play in E9th, then I could trow the switch and play in C6th. Great concept! But,,,,, whenever I would switch back to E9th, it would be unplayably out of tune. It was also stolen, along with an original 1958 Gibson Flying V, #28.. Guess which I mourned losing? In 1972 I bought a racks ands barrels D-10. Way mo better!
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 26 Feb 2015 11:30 am
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| wasn't lloyd green's first single made from a crossover? |
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Ken Pippus
From:
Langford, BC, Canada
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Posted 26 Feb 2015 1:51 pm
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| Thought it was a standard D-10. |
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Dustin Rhodes
From:
Owasso OK
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Posted 26 Feb 2015 2:01 pm
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| I love reading about the history of all the tinkering involved to get to the modern pedal steel. Coming from the 6 string world it makes me laugh at most of the "innovations" for regular guitars. |
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Benton Allen
From:
Muscle Shoals, Alabama, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2015 4:20 pm
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BAH HUMBUG!!!! How could anything this pretty sound bad? LOL!!! 
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 26 Feb 2015 4:32 pm
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| Benton Allen wrote: |
| ...How could anything this pretty sound bad? |
It won't sound bad. I've yet to hear a Sho-Bud with its original pick-ups sound anything but great, once it's tuned. John B's comment about getting everything adjusted for E9, switching to C6 and then switching back to find the pedals all wrong, is something that most people experience. The answer is that, unlike any other pedal steel, you have to adjust the pedals for E9, then C6, then adjust E9 again, then C6 again, and keep doing that until both neck settings are accurate. That's okay in your home studio, where once it's set up it will stay that way, but it must be very frustrating for someone on the road.  |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 26 Feb 2015 4:58 pm
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So it seems that the crossover, once you set up one neck, then the other, then repeat the process on both necks, and don't move it afterwards, and then you'll have a guitar that sounds as good as a new guitar and plays acceptably.
Alternatively, you can purchase a new guitar that sounds great right out of the case and also sounds great. Then take it on the road.
Hmmm.... tough choice, I must admit.
OTOH, I now remember why I sold a Crossover to a friend back in 1975 for $500 and couldn't look him in the eye for years, out of embarrassment.
Bottom Line: Friends don't sell friends Crossovers. James Morehead refuses to work on them... take heed.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Dan Dunne
From:
Asheville, North Carolina
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Posted 27 Feb 2015 7:06 am
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I understand the concerns with the Crossover models, but I was happy to get a Sho Bud D10 at a good price to learn on! I wouldn't have been able to afford a higher model D10, at least not right away...so I'd be sitting here reading the Forum instead of playing. I won't be playing any gigs for AT LEAST a few years, so the set-up issues are not a problem. And I'm fairly confident that I'll be able to sell it at the price I paid in a few years, should I decide to "upgrade."
I guess it's like purchasing anything else...lots of factors to consider...budget, features, etc.
_________________
Sho Bud Crossover D10 (blonde)
Fender Brownface Pro
Fender Brownface Reverb
Fender Telecaster FMT HH
Washburn banjo
OM-200 omnichord
Digitech GNX3000 recording station
Harmonicas & other toys! |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 27 Feb 2015 7:23 am
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| Herb, you forgot that with a Crossover you don't have to bother with all those pesky knee levers, since there's really no place to rig them underneath all that clutter… |
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Dan Dunne
From:
Asheville, North Carolina
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Posted 27 Feb 2015 8:14 am
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I've got 4 knee levers and 7 pedals...seems adequate. 
Time will tell if this Crossover is good to me, or at least "good enough" to learn on...and if all the bashing is justified or overblown. I get it though, I get it!
_________________
Sho Bud Crossover D10 (blonde)
Fender Brownface Pro
Fender Brownface Reverb
Fender Telecaster FMT HH
Washburn banjo
OM-200 omnichord
Digitech GNX3000 recording station
Harmonicas & other toys! |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 27 Feb 2015 10:15 am
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4 & 7 on a Crossover? Wow...
Crossovers usually don't have more than 1 or 2 KL's.
Cool... |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2015 10:50 am
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" I won't be playing any gigs for AT LEAST a few years"
Don't sell yourself short! Do you play 6-string? Fingerpick? If so, you already have a big step up! I was gigging after 4 lessons. I wasn't very good, cuz I didn't have much of a backlog of licks, but, in '72 when I started steel, I had played guitar, fingerpicking for a dozen years. My instructor taught me what every pedal and lever did, and related it to my 6-string knowledge. You might be gig-worthy a lot sooner than you expect!
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2015 12:30 pm
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| Dan Dunne wrote: |
I've got 4 knee levers and 7 pedals...seems adequate.
Time will tell if this Crossover is good to me, or at least "good enough" to learn on...and if all the bashing is justified or overblown. I get it though, I get it! |
That doesn't quite sound like my old Crossover because mine came with 6&1. I made three knee levers and hooked them into the linkages for pedals 4-6. I ended up with 3&4 working the E9 neck and 4&3 working the C6 neck. It worked well and I'd like to hear from whoever has it now. |
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