What is wrong with this copedent

Joe Huggins · From: Bear River City,Utah, USA

Only been a steel guitar player since Christmas and already have a second guitar. I bought it from a friend but I wounder about the copedent. The RNL drops string 6 to the same pitch as string 7. That would make no sense to me. Hoping some one will clue me in here.

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Stage One, Nashville 112, Way more desire than ability

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Hi Joe, At first glance things like that don't make sense, but there are "many ways to use a note"â€¦ That guitar is fully loaded for most modern changes as is. That set of changes on RKL are some of my favorites, I have that exact setup on most of my guitars. The F# can be used as a unison with string 7, but mostly it's used as a melody note or moving tone within a chord, and to get things like alternate positions for dominant chords along with the B pedal and E lower. If you do a forum search for G# to F# you should find a bunch of discussions on this change, as well as a link to (I believe Greg Cutshaw's) tab showing a bunch of licks using it. Buddy Emmons does some beautiful stuff with the combinations on several of his albums and courses. Have fun!
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Howard Parker · From: Maryland

Is it "split" with the B pedal to give you a "G"?
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Mike Fried · From: Nashville, TN, USA

Joe, that's a very common change that was popularized years ago by Buddy Emmons, I believe. It's used mainly for its 3rd to 2nd (or reverse) motion in pedal-up position, or in combination with the E-Eb lever for a I to a V chord. When looking only at chord tones, it is redundant with the 7th string, but it makes for some very useful and pretty moves. Also, if your steel allows for "split tuning", you can combine it with your second pedal for a G note to give you a pedals-up (E) minor or a pedals down (A) dominant 7th. All in all, it's my second-most-used knee lever, FWIW. Hope that helps!
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Joe, it acts as the inverse of the A pedal.
Also, when split with the AB pedals, you get an A7 chord.
It's a MARVELOUS change.
Welcome to the pedal steel guitar!
It makes the most sense to think of the steel in terms of chords and harmony, you're smoothly bending 3 to 2 (or if you have the D# lever engaged, you drop 5 to 4: from the AF position, drop 5 to 4).
I'll look through my demo/discussion videos, and see if I have one addressing it.
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Gerald Shaw · From: Florida, USA

Nothing wrong with that copedent. The six string full tone drop is common. Looks pretty good to me.

Joe Huggins · From: Bear River City,Utah, USA

Well, I was just getting used to my Stage One and then this thing came along and I didn't understand why you would want that change but I thank you all and will wait for the chance to use it.
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Tim Brady · From: Ohio, USA

You can lower that 6th string a whole tone, to a 2nd of the open E chord (at fret zero), to that F#. Then, when you let it back off, the 6th string returns to the 3rd. (It sounds something like rocking on your A pedal with your B pedal down out of the closed position, A chord at fret zero.)

Also, you can go all the way from that F# to an A (suspended 4th) by engaging the B pedal, too. That whole thing can be made to sound good.

Then, too, I think some players might use a split, or something like that, on the 6th string, to get a G (dominant 7th in A chord) with A and B pedals down.

I don't use the change, but I know some players do use it. Also, I think that I have heard it used on recordings.

Th 9th string is a dominant 7th, so it might open up some chordal possibilities in the open position.

Anyway, I hope that helps a little.
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Here's John Hughey making good use of the 6th string lower to F#. It is on his right knee right. Look at timestamps: 0:22 (He uses it with the B pedal with a split tuner to get a 7th in the pedals down position, along with the A pedal on string 5), 0:31, 0:52. 0:56 and some more throughout the song. At 0:52, he uses it by itself to get the same move as letting of the A pedal in the pedals down position. The others, he uses with the E to D# lever (his left knee left) to make the 1 chord that is two frets below the pedals down position.

I notice that you only have string 1 going to a G. I have seen some that raise 1 to G and D# to E, but more often you will see string 1 raised to a G# and 2 to an E. Besides the many, many licks using the unison note with string 3, using both the 1 & 2 strings move what is 3rd and 5th of a B chord up to the 1 & 3 of the E chord. John uses this change at 1:49. Sweet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvFYj9-LU80&list=PL4B28A074256BE7D0

Remember: To quote a world famous philosopher, oh wait. it was only me. Laughing

It's not the note, it's how you get to it and what you can do with it. You can't get that stuff with just the F# on string 7. There are some that raise string 7 from F# to G#, but they can't move the string from F# to A, without moving the bar or slanting the bar.

The 6th string lower is my 3rd most used lever, behind the E raises & lowers. You'd have to shoot me in the head before I'd give up that change.
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John Booth · From: Columbus Ohio, USA

I have that drop on the 6th and I really like it.
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Good catch, Richard.
Joe, if you're going to bring 2 to E, take 1 to G#.
If you're only gonna take 1 to G, stop pulling 2 to E.
I have a 0 pedal that pulls 1 & 2 to G# and E, and a knee that raises 1 to G and lowers 6 to F#
The raise 1 to G/lower to F# is an OLD change, was on an Emmons instructional course in the 70s. The 1 & 2 raise is more modern.
Some people combined the two, but my vocabulary has evolved with the G on the 1st as a positive thing and I didn't want to get used to a half-stop.
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More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

A guy I was giving lessons to, had the first string to G and the second string to E. He said it was a nice way to get the minor in the no pedals position. Then he ripped me off. I lent him several albums that are no longer in print. Then he moved and didn't give them back.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Joe Huggins · From: Bear River City,Utah, USA

OK, so I raised my 1 string pull to G#. That is probably what it was. My Stage One only went to G but it didn't have a pull on 2. Besides, those guys who only pull it to G have a bad reputation and I want no part of that.
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Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

That listed setup is how I've had my Franklin for years. Except I have the 7th string F# to G raise on the RKR and I split the 6th string lower with the B pedal.

I also have the LKV push up that lowers (and splits) the 5th and 10th strings.

The setup you list is the stock factory 3 pedal/4 knee lever setup on my wife's GFI S-10. It was also the stock factory 3 pedal/4 knee lever set up on a Carter.

Justin Griffith · From: Taylor, Texas, USA

I have that exact setup on my guitars. I do not raise the second on my P/P though.
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Richard Sinkler said. Oh, that's me.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Richard, if you have the 2 raise on the floor, or on a different leg from the 2nd string lower (Like I said, I raise the 2nd on a 0 pedal, my whole tone lower is on RKR), you can pull it to E and then drop it back down to a D.
I did that a few times on this video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUykptG6DBQ
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I actually have the 1st & 2nd string raises on my 5th pedal, next to my "A" pedal.
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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I agree with Gerald. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that copedant. Mr. Green

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

That's the exact copedent that I use, except I also have a LKV to lower Bs 1/2 step. Very good set up.
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Joe Huggins · From: Bear River City,Utah, USA

So Mickey Adams threw me a curve with a 7 string half tone raise for a 7th chord in his Amazing Grace video. If I remember right he had strings 5,6,7,A & B pedals and the half tone raise on 7 which I think gives a root on 6, a 3rd on 5, and a 7th on 7. I dont have a 7 string raise but I do have a full tone lower on 6. If I combine the full tone lower on 6 with the half tone raise with the B pedal (is that what you call a split?) that should give me the 7th on 6 and a 3rd on 5. Maybe that is enough but if not I can go up to string 3 and get the root back or down to 8 and get the 5th. Am I working this out right? I don't have my guitar at the moment to try this out.
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

That is what we call a split. But to make it work, your guitar would probablyneed to have a split tuner installed. This can be either the screws in the changer housing, or an extra raise rod installed on the lever that lowers string 6. The extra rod is the method used on my guitar. This is how it is tuned:
1. Tune string 6 open with the tuning key
2. Tune the raise to A with the regular raise nylon tuner
3. With th A pedal still pressed, engage the lower and tune the G note with THE REGULAR LOWER NYLON TUNING NUT.
4. With just the lever activated, you will probably notice the F# note is flat. That is why we have that extra raise rod on the knee lever. With just the lever, tune that new nylon tuner to bring the F# up to be in tune.

The crew in the changer housing, I don't know how that works.

If you don't have the split tuner installed, you can get the parts to add one. Or, you can choose which you would use more, the G note, or the F# note and tune that note to be in tune.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

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