tuning

Chase Brady · From: Ohio, USA

Cindy Cashdollar, in her Western Swing instructional video, recommends tuning the root right on pitch, the 3rd and 6th slightly under pitch, and the 5th slightly above pitch. She's using C6 tuning. I have a few questions about this.
1) Is this commonly accepted practice?
2) Does it work the same for any tuning? I'm using A6 on my 8 string, open D on my 6 string and high G or G6 on my Dobro.
3) Is there a simple technical explanation for this, or is it just general consensus that it sounds better that way?

Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

i dont know how common this is - but players of most chord based tunings will probably 'sweeten' the intervals. to my ear - i try to get the root tuned straight up, as she says, and then bring the 5th in to where it sounds right - and the ear can hear out of tune 5ths pretty easily. then i will bring in the major 3rd to make sure it all sounds 'sweet'.

i will then check all the intervals to see what needs to be adjusted - to my ear - the 5ths need to be sweetened as they its the most obvious when played. my ear can detect very slight variations with 5ths but it will often not detect any slight variation in other intervals. the 5th being the strongest overtone makes this logical.

this applies to any chord based tuning, not just C6

the simple explanation is that you are tuning to an open chord - each note in that chord carries a certain weight...the root being, obviously the main note - then the 5th, then the 3rd, the 6th, 9th, etc...depending on your tuning.

this is my own theory of tuning, fwiw - a lot of people tune from the top down - tuning the E string first (C6 tuning)...cause, you know, its the first string, why not....well - the E is the 3rd of the tuning - its one of the notes you will probably need to sweeten so its a bad note to tune from. tune the root note first and follow in the weighted manner - R, 5, 3, etc and you wont have to fight the tuning as much.
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Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I don't know of a tuning method that incorporates a sharp fifth. In just intonation, like a violin, the fifth interval is tuned pure, or beatless.
It could be that Cindy's comparison is to an electronic tuner set for equal temperament; a pure fifth would be slightly wide ('sharp') from ET.
It is better to tune the fifth slightly narrow from just (your G would read a couple of cents flat) than to err on the side of sharp.
If you are tuning by ear, don't raise the G quite to pure, to avoid going sharp.

Intervals are usually stated as narrow ('flat') or wide ('sharp') from equal temperament.
Equal temperament for many steel players produces thirds that are too wide; they sound too sharp or beat too fast.
Current practice seems to be to tune 3rds in the compromise range between JI and ET.
(The term 'sweeten' seems to apply to both ET and JI, that is, sweet seems to be between the two, depending on the listener.)

Making sure the fifth of the scale is slightly flat will aid in tuning the other intervals by ear.
If it is sharp (from either ET or JI) it will be difficult to tune the thirds and sixths pleasingly.

Jerome's method in the last paragraph sounds good.

Steve Mueller · From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

The 5th will be 2 hundreths of a semitone sharp of ET if tuned exactly with the harmonic from the root. That's probably the idea she's using there.
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Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

1) Is this commonly accepted practice?

For many pros, yes. Flat the 3rd tone and the 6th tone slightly for an "in tune" chord sound.

2) Does it work the same for any tuning?

Yes

3) Is there a simple technical explanation for this

Probably not. It has to do with temperament, and how the notes sound when played together (as a chord). It way too complicated to explain here... not that I would be able to anyway! Just do a Google search on tuning and temperament, and be prepared for a lot of extremely detailed and confusing information. The bottom line is... just try flatting your 3rds and 6ths slightly and see how it sounds to your ears.
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Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · From: Quebec, Canada

http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/learning/tuning_up.php

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Roger Fletcher · From: United Kingdom

Roger Fletcher · From: United Kingdom

Frank James Pracher · From: Michigan, USA

Rick Aiello, posted a cool chart that showed how to use harmonics to tune up with just intonation that worked well for me.

Here is his website, I think there is a download for it. I think he posted it here also.

http://www.horseshoemagnets.com/_sgg/m7_1.htm
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Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

It's important to remember that Jeff Newman recommended tuning some strings sharp on PEDAL STEEL GUITAR to compensate for cabinet drop when the pedals were depressed. He also said that tuning slightly sharp meant that open string licks and chords (with pedals depressed) would be in tune, not flat. He told me that himself. I see no reason to tune NON-PEDAL steels sharp. By the way, the Newman settings do incorporate the flatted 3rd and flatted 6th which IMO does apply to non-pedal steel. But tuning strings sharp?... nah, not necessary in this section of the Forum.
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Chase Brady · From: Ohio, USA

I tried Rick Aiello's method of tuning by harmonics on my acoustic lap steel. I'm thinking my intonation is a little better. Trying to hear those beats in a noisy bar room could be a problem, but if I get it well in tune and notice where the indicator on my snark sits, that might do it. I'll have to play around with it. Thanks for all the help.

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