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Topic: Feedback on short keyhead Emmons |
Skip Mertz
From:
N.C. (deceased)
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Posted 23 Apr 2004 1:47 am |
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| Would like to hear Pros and Cons about this model. It doesnt seem to be as popular and bring as much as a standard LeGrand. Design flaw? |
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John Lacey
From:
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 23 Apr 2004 5:13 am
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| I owned a short keyhead Legrande for about 16 years and I wasn't nuts about it. It had a lot of dead spots on it, especially after the 12th. fret and didn't sustain that well. Also the keyheads, Sperzel, were stiff and had to be replaced. After I bought my PP, there was no comparison. Mileage may vary. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2004 6:42 am
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The original (short head) LeGrandes were among several in the evolution of the pristine LeGrande II and III's. Yes it had some less than desirable things as did the early Lashley LeGrandes. Just like any product that is introduced usually goes through a period of refinement.
The changer had a problem in replacing strings because the finger supports made it difficult getting the string ball on the pin. And as you say, some of these original ones did have less sustain past the 12th fret, compared to the longer keyhead models.
Interestingly, I believe this same scenario applies to all keyless guitars. I noticed it instantly on my Sierra and Excel. Not saying they do not have sustain, just saying they have less than a comparable keyed model, everything else being equal.
The string length beyond the nut to the keypost creates "overtones" that many players like to hear. Strangely these overtones can be heard EVEN when the fingers mute the strings to the left of the bar. Since the early Legrandes have a very short keyhead, this may account for the anamoly.
Another problem was the bellcranks and swivels. These of course were greatly improved on the later Lashley LeGrandes and the II's and III's.
So yes, they do garner a lower price than the later and present models. It is similar to the Rickenbacher bakelite models. Pre-war wide pickup models usually get more dollars than post war narrow pu models, everything else being equal. Also, if the Rick has a metal tail piece supporting the string balls, in lieu of the strings coming up thru the body, they also command less.
It is interesting how little things can change (often drastically) the price of an item. But it does. And even more interesting is how quickly this information spreads amongst buyers and/or sellers. So the old adage, "Buyer beware" is often more heeded than overlooked IMO.
carl |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 23 Apr 2004 8:39 am
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I had a short-keyhead LG a few years ago, and that guitar just didn't "make it" for me. I agree with Carl about development of a model change, refinements have to be made.
Even the PP didn't really become standardized until the cut-tail changer came on in 1967 or so.
I'm also one of those guys that Carl describes: I like the sound of a long keyhead guitar, a longer string just has more resonance to me.
If I got a Legrande, I'd prefer a newer one, probably an LG3.
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 23 Apr 2004 9:09 am
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| Carl, your analysis is right on. Great post. You are very knowledgeable. |
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Ernie Renn
From:
Brainerd, Minnesota USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2004 11:08 am
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I played a shorty from '82 until '99. It was dependable and over that period of time only had to replace a handful of bell cranks. It was easy to change and maintain. It may have had a little less sustain above the 12 fret, but I don't play all that much in Hughey-land. Besides, minor adjustments to a compressor and volume pedal correct it enough for me.
Bill Nauman in Vegas is still playing my old guitar.
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My best,
Ernie
www.buddyemmons.com |
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Buddy Emmons
From:
Hermitage, TN USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Apr 2004 12:51 pm
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Hi Skip,
I may have had the best short keyhead Emmons ever built, but it was the prototype with parts that were made mostly by hand. To test it I played the guitar in my home for weeks and loved it.
When Ron came to Nashville for an assessment I told him if he could duplicate the one at my house, we had a winner. Unfortunately he didn’t. He immediately tried to cut corners in the parts and manufacturing end and the guitar suffered accordingly. Two or three production model Legrandes later I still couldn’t keep them in tune so I gave up. Meanwhile the prototype performed flawlessly.
At the time I couldn't understand why someone would cut corners on a guitar that would sell for more and cost less to build than the Push/Pull model but I do now.
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Lem Smith
From:
Long Beach, MS
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Posted 23 Apr 2004 1:11 pm
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I know my playing isn't much, but here's a link to a thread with a link to a Windows Media clip of me playing on one of the short keyhead model Legrandes.
In spite of my obvious playing limitations, I find this particular guitar to sound good.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/005569.html
Lem
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Skip Mertz
From:
N.C. (deceased)
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Posted 23 Apr 2004 1:42 pm
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Thanks Buddy, well now you know "The Rest of the Story"  |
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Skip Mertz
From:
N.C. (deceased)
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Posted 23 Apr 2004 1:52 pm
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| Hey Lem , I enjoyed the clip. Thank goodness the drummer and keys weren't there, they usually play to much and too loud. Bass was about right. I think I'll find me a trio to play with! |
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Ron Whitworth
From:
Yuma,Ariz.USA Yeah they say it's a DRY heat !!
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Posted 23 Apr 2004 2:06 pm
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| I have listened to the clip of Lem playing his "short keyhead LeGrand" several times & i just do not hear that this guitar doesn't have any sustain to it.Maybe i just can't hear what some of you do, but that guitar sure sounds very good to my ears..I have heard a couple of others ( short key head ) also that souned just as good to my ears also.I know a lot of you fellas know a lot more about than me, but i will be danged if i can dog all of them.I think there might have been some that did not sound maybe as good as someone thought they should, but surely not every one of them.Listen to Lem's clip again with an open mind & see what you think please..Thanks Ron |
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Graham Bland
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2004 8:21 pm
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Buddy,
Can you remember, was the prototype you speak of the guitar that you played on the Austin City Limits show with Ray Price reunion of the Cherokee Cowboys about 1979 of so? |
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Graham Bland
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2004 11:28 pm
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| /\ |
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Ernie Renn
From:
Brainerd, Minnesota USA
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Buddy Emmons
From:
Hermitage, TN USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Apr 2004 2:47 am
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It would be the black one Ernie.
Graham… If it looked like the guitar in Ernie's post, that would have been the prototype on Austin City Limits. Two of the production models I played that followed the prototype had a rosewood Formica finish and a maple lacquer finish.
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 24 Apr 2004 6:38 am
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I had rosewood "baby grande" and apsolutely loved it.I played a gig downt town Nashville one time and let another player sit in and try it,first thing ha said after the set was over was,"How much?".He said if I ever decide to sell this guitar to let him know.One of the best guitars I ever had.It had a 710 on E9 and BL-10 on C6.Sweet and compact litle guitar with a great tone.I tried many Legrande II but never liked it as much as my "baby grande"
But,then again,what do I know.
DB |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Apr 2004 7:18 am
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| Short keyhead Emmons guitars, Iv'e had some that were incredible, and some that were not. The good ones were great and the average ones were just wonderful, so my point is: The worst Emmons in the world is still a great guitar. |
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Cartwright Thompson
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Posted 24 Apr 2004 9:14 am
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A bad day fishing is better than a good at work.
A bad Emmons is better than a good......... |
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Ken Williams
From:
Arkansas
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Posted 24 Apr 2004 7:45 pm
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I've played one for the last 18 years and have been completely satisfied with it. It plays good, stays in tune, rarely breaks a string, and has good tone, at least to me. The only problem I've ever had was breaking one of the tiny tuning pins that hold the string ball on. And, looking back, it was probably my fault because I may have tried to tune a string with the ball barely hanging on the end of the pin, thus putting undo pressure on the pin. The only complaint I've ever had is that the vertical lever has no height(angle)adjustment. It seems to me, that of all the levers you might need to adjust the closeness to your knee, that would be the one.
Ken
http://home.ipa.net/~kenwill
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Skip Mertz
From:
N.C. (deceased)
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Posted 24 Apr 2004 11:25 pm
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| Thanks to all who responded. It was an interesting thread, but I think you can close her up Bob. |
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Ernie Renn
From:
Brainerd, Minnesota USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2004 3:22 am
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I thought the black one was right. Wasn't the sticker, (the yellow oval on the face,) to cover a crack in the formica? Or something like that?
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My best,
Ernie
www.buddyemmons.com |
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Buddy Emmons
From:
Hermitage, TN USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Apr 2004 5:25 am
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Ernie,
It could have been that guitar. For years, people thought I would have the best Emmons guitars because of my involvement with the company, but it was the opposite. I wouldn’t have a guitar five minutes until Ron would point out the flaws, which ranged from scratches in the finish to a crack in the body, or a pitted end plate. On the guitar you’re referring to there was a crack in the cabinet under the Formica front apron where it couldn’t be seen. I guess I got the guitars they couldn’t sell for the full price. I believe most companies call them rejects.
The sound was fairly decent on the two or three shorty Legrandes I played but the mechanics had a high vacuum factor. The Legrandes I now have are fine mechanics wise, so at some point a change was obviously made for the better. But I wouldn’t have given two cents for any of the first models and you can bet that whoever ended up with them paid over three grand apiece and were probably happy as a lark, which is something else I had no control over.
[This message was edited by Buddy Emmons on 25 April 2004 at 06:34 AM.] |
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Mike Archer
From:
church hill tn
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Posted 25 Apr 2004 6:14 am
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well friends
I have a shorty legrande
and also have a wood neck p/p
and i like the short guitar a little
better than my p/p tone is very sweet
and it plays great I dont care much for the
wood neck tone
big mike a |
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Ernie Renn
From:
Brainerd, Minnesota USA
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 25 Apr 2004 12:41 pm
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you would think Ron would make the best possible instrument for big "E"... 
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