Newbie looking for 1st PSG

Adam Tracksler · From: Maine, USA

I'm looking for a starter PSG. I have found the following, and need a little advice:

1. Carter Starter. I know its got its fans, and non-fans... seems like a place to start (its around 450)

2. Sho-Bud Professinal 1. Seems like a better guitar than the Carter. Its older, I know and its a 3+1. Can more knee levers be added? how much does that run? (Its around 850)

3. Fender 400. This is an odd duck. 4 levers, no Knees, and I'm not crazy about the sunburst, but its an option....(Around 850)

I honestly don't see myself playing out much at all, maybe...maybe at church, and maybe some bluegrass/country. I like playing Jazz/Swing and alt country type stuff. Somehow I think an old (40ish) guy is cooler with steel guitar than jumping around playing guitar or bass.... (which I'm kind of "retiring from") ......

If none of these are right, please point me in the right direction....

Thanks in advance....ad

John Booth · From: Columbus Ohio, USA

Price-wise and quality-wise you have many options.

One of the better guitars I've played at a lower price was a Carter, but NOT the Carter starter. If you can find one, well maintained at a good price, GET IT

Also I hear GREAT things about the new Mullen Discovery. Forumite Gary Sill can explain the features of this guitar and I have heard very good people do live and session work with them despite their being quite inexpensive (relatively)

And DON'T overlook Fessenden. These are very high quality guitars and show up fairly often on the forum.

IN MY OPINION stay away from the Sho~Buds unless you find a very solid one, as they are older and "usually" require a lot of tinkering, adjustments, etc, kinda like an old Harley, however, there are plenty of people here that can assist you with setup and parts should you decide to upgrade it.

My most important piece of advice is be patient, save a little more money and go for a reputable newer (used) model right off the bat. It will save you a lot of frustration, you'll play better, it will be more dependable, you'll enjoy it more, and if you end up wanting to sell it, it will almost certainly be worth all you paid for it.

That's my 1 cent worth buddy. If you want to pm me I will keep an eye out for suggestions on guitars I see here. I'm not a great player, but I have had most all of them since the late 70's (Clark, Mullen, Sho~Buds, Carters, Emmons, Sierras, Fessenden, MSAs, and others) Some have discouraged me and some were great machines, and don't forget that, they ARE machines first and foremost.

Good luck Brother.
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Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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Don R Brown · From: Rochester, New York, USA

Adam, since you're asking for opinions here's mine. Take that $850 you are talking about and put just a little more with it and get a Stage One. It's 3 + 4 and I have never heard anyone say anything bad about them. I have had several experienced players try mine and every one has said they are impressed with it. For someone starting out it's all the instrument you'll need for a long time.

I got mine 3 years ago and brand new, with a good case, delivered to my door it was less that $1050. I have never had a problem with it. Doug is now making the Encore and I believe that is in addition to, not instead of, the Stage One. And they do show up on the forum "for sale" section from time to time used.

Do a search for threads similar to yours, or search "Stage One". You will see a lot of enthusiasm for them. And no, I'm not on their payroll nor getting a kickback, just a satisfied customer.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

We need to consider his price range. The three guitars he listed are all under a grand. It's really hard to find good guitars in that price range. The Carter Starter and Sho-Bud's can be acceptable starter guitars as long as the owner realizes they are not pro quality guitars. They most likely will need work to get them to be reliable.

The Mullen Discovery seems more like a light weight pro model. They have a $2100 price tag, and they are so new to the market, you rarely if ever see used one's for sale, and they would probably get almost new prices for them.

I rarely see Fessenden's for under $1500, and definitely not for under a grand.

So, knowing his pricing parameters is really the only way we can really help him. When new prospects start posting info like the OP did, they are pretty much setting their pricing expectations. Not to say that with some research, which is what he is doing here, that couldn't change.

My choice of the one's he listed would be the Carter. But it will need the mods and "beefing" up that others have found was needed. I only recommend this because it has the four knee levers already. For sound and looks, probably the Sho-Bud, as long as it's not one of those shelf paper covered Mavericks. The Fender, to me, is not a good choice. The lack of any levers, which can be added but at an additional expense, make it not an option for me. They are more for an established player looking to get that Fender sound and have some history under their hands.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Don's advice, to me, is the best advice. If you can come up with the little bit extra, the Stage One is my top recomendation.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Adam Tracksler · From: Maine, USA

My top end right now is about 850.

Ive been playing dobro and lap steel (and guitar, mandolin, bass, and banjo....), I wanted to upgrade to an 8 string but have been listening to a lot of alt country type stuff and I can do 90% of what I can do on an 8 string with my dobro... So I thought adding PSG might be a better option.

So to that end... I know that the carter has its limitations, but it has the 4 levers....At this point, I don't see myself playing out every night or going on tour, that train has sailed. Im just a regular guy playing in my living room.....trying not to annoy my wife Very Happy

The Sho Bud appeals to me (Its a professional 1, I think...) Since its probably got better bones than the carter, and I think (from my meager research) that I could add 3 more levers down the road for about $100 or so all in all done...

Pic of the Bud in question: (sorry its so teeny, but it might help...)

That is, unless its better to start out with 4 levers. Please tell me.....

The Fender is in my price range, but isn't aesthetically appealing to me at all...

Hope that helps,

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Another vote here for the Stage One. It's a little bit more money, and a LOT more guitar.

Adam, you say your budget is $850. I say put that money in the bank and every time you have a spare 10 or 20 bucks, you deposit it till you have the extra $150, and get yourself a guitar that will serve you for 3 or 4 (or more) years.

If you buy one of the others you mentioned, you'll want something better, within 6 months.
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David Cubbedge · From: Toledo,Ohio, USA

Since my introduction to PSG seems a little different than most, here's how it worked for me. I was a guitar player who started playing steel in '76 with an old Fender Stringmaster double-eight. No pedals, no nothing. Taught me a bit about the bar, bar slants, and picking. About a year later I acquired a Fender 400, 8-string, 4 pedals. I played this for years, but not full time at all. It did teach me some basic licks that I was able to transfer to the next steel, an Emmons S-10. Today I have a restored '77 Emmons D-10.

If I had to do it all over again, I would've bought the D-10 in '77 when it was new! That way I'd have access to all the bells and whistles and today I'd probably be in higher demand!
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Red Emmons D10 fatback #2246D with sweet Hugh Briley split cases, Black Emmons S10 #1466S, '73 Fender "Snakeskin" Twin Reverb, Peavey Nashville 400, Line 6 Pod XT, Fender 400, Fender Stringmaster Double-8, too many guitars, one bass!

Don R Brown · From: Rochester, New York, USA

Just to help you out I did a search for Stage One's on the "For Sale" section. I saw one posted for $900 including shipping, another for $900 plus shipping, and up to $925 and $950. They seems to sell pretty quickly - I think those have all sold, but they are out there if you wait.

As I said above they are 3 pedals 4 knees so you would save the cost of adding knees down the road. And because they are essentially ready to play out of the box, you would save the "headache factor" of trying to make an older steel into what YOU want. Hard to put a dollar value on being able to concentrate on learning to actually play - AND having the setup being the same one you will still be using in 3 years, instead of re-learning once you get around to adding levers etc.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Maybe just get the Carter Starter. It will do for the moment. It's cheap and sorta works. Then you can see if you need anything more down the road.
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Bob

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Doug Earnest · From: Branson, MO USA

That picture is not a Pro 1 like any I have ever seen....looks more like a Fender Sho-Bud that has been worked on cosmetically, or maybe a Maverick. Could be a good guitar with the addition of some more knee levers but I don't think you can do that for the $100 figure.

If I was on a budget I would get the Carter Starter. You can easily improve the knee lever stops for practically nothing and have a perfectly serviceable guitar for cheap, and you should always be able to get your money back. You might even make a few bucks.

Then you can get a Stage One or an Encore a little later!

Karen Sarkisian · From: Boston, MA, USA

I learned to play on a stage one. i wish I still had it, great guitar.
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I agree with Doug. Even doing all the work yourself, $100 for 3 more levers on that Bud is probably not going to happen. If you buy the stuff, it will be a few hundred.

If your handy enough to make levers for a Bud, you can fix the shortcomings of the Carter.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Adam Tracksler · From: Maine, USA

Would I be worse off to get the carter now, learn some and upgrade in a few months. Versus waiting a few more months and getting something better? I'm not going on tour any time soon Cool

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

In my opinion, you should wait a little while, and get a Stage One.

Whatever you choose, you should get a guitar with 4 knee levers. It's true that there is some excellent older instruction material for guitars with just one. However, 4 levers has become standard, and much of today's courses are written for guitars with that many.

If you have fewer, it's only a matter of time before you read something that tells you to use a lever that you might not have.
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Do the mods to the Carter that Doug has mentioned and you should get some pretty decent mileage out of it as a first guitar.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

W. Van Horn · From: Houston, texas

You have gotten a lot of good advice so far on both sides of the fence. I am leaning towards Doug and bob's advice - get the CS, make the knee levers more stable, and see how you feel about pedal steel in general. If you won't be devoting a ton of time to learning, the CS will last you a good while. If you fall in love with Psg and start getting good, you can get that 450 back easy and then buy a stage one or a cheap pro model or whatever. The CS does not feel very good, but it gets the job done and actually sounds okay. The sho bud will be a money pit. You need 3 pedals and 4 levers. Oh yeah, make sure the CS has not been modified - I've seen a few that people had really messed up.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

that sho-bud is just a cleaned up maverick. too expensive. i'd try to get the carter for $400 or less. lotsa sellers will drop their price when they smell cash. the starter will work, as bob says, til you decide you need something else. but you can learn alot in the meantime.

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

Ive heard nothing but great reviews on the Stage One. If you do get a Carter Starter, just keep in mind that the knee levers are made of very thin metal, and are prone to bending. On mine the LKR (Left Knee Right) was the worst offender and I used a small vice grip to clamp the top hinge tight to strengthen it. Also if you search threads here, you'll discover that another weak point is the stop screw which has a round top. These are fairly unreliable, but can be remedied by a simple replacement to something sturdier. Ultimately...you get what you pay for, so for $500 there will be some quality shortcuts taken!

Looking back, my advice is get the best you can afford first. Its still a buyers market and there are plenty of pro steels for sale at reasonable prices that will retain their value should you decide its not for you. If you are like most though, it will be for you. Down the road you'll be glad you got the right gear to begin with, and don't need to trade up later.

These contraptions are addicting, so be prepared! Good luck with whatever you choose. Very Happy

Dan Robinson · From: Colorado, USA

Stage One.

My main axe is a Sho-Bud Professional. The guitar in your picture is not.

You can do a lot with just TWO knee levers. But just ONE? You will outgrow that before you know it. Yes. 5 knees are considered kind of "standard" these days. Everyone wants at least 5. But that 5th (vertical) lever... lots of folks have it and don't use it much.

Why Stage One?
1. It's in your price range.
2. Spend your time playing pedal steel guitar, instead of working on your guitar.
3. Safer investment. You know what you're getting.
4. Later on you can
(a) trade up, or
(b) keep your Stage One
and BOTH are good decisions.

Daniel Policarpo · Posted 29 Jan 2015 6:00 pm

I'm glad I got the Stage One when I first started, but I waited an extra year deciding whether to do this thing at all, where I might have started earlier just throwing down on a Carter that another guy was selling for $500. Used Entry level steels in decent order go quick around here if it isn't the instrument for you. I think I just saw a Stage One in fine shape go for $900 ina day or two. I don't think I'll ever sell mine, though... so don't ask! Mr. Green

Whatever you consider, ask for some pictures of the undercarriage, changer, keyhead, neck, everything and have somebody around here knowledgeable enough to say if what you are getting is fair. I had a lot of help making my decision from some great people here. Good luck with whatever you get.

James Jacoby · From: Ohio, USA

I started out with one like the picture--3 pedals, and one lever. In two weeks, I needed more levers! If you're at all serious, about this, trust me, you're gonna want more levers very quickly! A more pro-oriented guitar, is more expensive, initially, but you'll save a bunch, in the long haul. You'll just end up spending more, anyway, for better guitars, or adding on to the old one. Starting out on a steel with too few levers, and/or pedals, is like trying to learn how to drive a car, without a clutch, and brake pedal.IMHO -Jake-

Karen Sarkisian · From: Boston, MA, USA

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=278736
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen

John Booth · From: Columbus Ohio, USA

This is the one Adam, Grab it Bro.
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Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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