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Post new topic Strings ball ends. Hooks Vs Pins.
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Author Topic:  Strings ball ends. Hooks Vs Pins.
Jason Lynch


From:
Essex, United Kingdom
Post  Posted 24 Jan 2015 3:23 pm    
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Hi all
I've been doing a little window shopping lately, (Dreaming!) and looking at new guitars.
I've noticed the amount of manufacturers that use pins to secure the string to the finger, rather than a hook for the ball end to fit into.
Personally, I can't imagine anything worse than messing around with a load of pins every time you change strings-sounds like a recipe for disaster to me! I've only had two guitars, and they both had hooks in the finger.
Is there an advantage to these pins That I can't see?
Sho-pro, Rittenberry, Rains, Justice, Fessenden all use pins.
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Jack Stoner


From:
Kansas City, MO
Post  Posted 24 Jan 2015 3:32 pm    
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My Franklin uses pins. The PP Emmons I had, used pins.

There are some that believe pins have better tone and sustain.
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Jason Lynch


From:
Essex, United Kingdom
Post  Posted 24 Jan 2015 3:34 pm    
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Ok, thanks jack.
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Dale Rottacker


From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
Post  Posted 24 Jan 2015 3:49 pm    
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Jason...I’ve got both, but it’s my Sho~Bud Pro lll that has the hooks, and I’d say, I personally have had more issues with them than the pins on the two Mullens I’ve had...For instance, not being able to get a fat 10th string back in the hook on the C6th neck...And I play that neck, VERY little...it just popped out one day, and seems a little undersized to get the ball up in there far enough so it won’t pop out.
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Jason Lynch


From:
Essex, United Kingdom
Post  Posted 24 Jan 2015 3:51 pm    
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Thanks Dale. Seems strange to imagine a string under tensions just "popping out" from it's hook.
And thanks. I thought Mullen had hooks!
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Dale Rottacker


From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
Post  Posted 24 Jan 2015 5:11 pm    
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Jason Lynch wrote:
Thanks Dale. Seems strange to imagine a string under tensions just "popping out" from it's hook.
And thanks. I thought Mullen had hooks!


I might be confused Jason...My Sho~Bud has “slots”, I assumed thats what you referred to as hooks as I’ve always called what’s on my Mullen “Pins”...these are off my Mullen...sorry if I was confused...Confused


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Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
https://www.youtube.com/@steelinatune
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com
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Jason Lynch


From:
Essex, United Kingdom
Post  Posted 25 Jan 2015 12:17 am    
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Yeah, that's what I meant by pins, Dale. Thanks.
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Johan Jansen


From:
Europe
Post  Posted 25 Jan 2015 12:36 am    
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I think it all has to do with the overall instruction of your pedalsteel. I decided to go with my WBS for a brass tunnel- or bridge-changer. I made (to me) the right decicion for sound and sustain inhere. Easy to change strings. Also, never a pin that falls down in the changer and almost no stringbreakage. JJ

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Bob Carlucci

 

From:
Candor, New York, USA
Post  Posted 25 Jan 2015 5:18 am    
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Johan.. Wow, what a great design for a pedal steel bridge! The few WBS steels I have seen pics of, have really impressed me.. They look as well built and innovative as any steel guitar built here in the states...
I have been on their website, and the odd translation is a hoot.. You can see the somewhat broken English in print.
The WBS guitars like super precision machines... The Germans have always built really good stuff.
bob
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Donny Hinson

 

From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
Post  Posted 25 Jan 2015 6:32 am    
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Guitars with pins could be a problem, especially if you only have one guitar. A pin snapping off or coming loose, while it's a very rare occurence, could put you out of business until it's repaired.

If I gigged regularly with a guitar like that, it'd have to have two rows of pins. In case one broke, you'd have the "backup" already there.
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post  Posted 25 Jan 2015 6:49 am    
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Williams has a slanted design on their changer fingers, with a slot to fit the string end into. With this design, when a string breaks the end doesn't wind up in the changer.
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 25 Jan 2015 7:01 am    
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Donny, that's a great idea and easy to do but I can't imagine any manufacturer taking it up and so drawing attention to the possibility of failure. It would have to be a retro-fit, like the emergency second brake pedal on your car.
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chris ivey


From:
california (deceased)
Post  Posted 25 Jan 2015 9:23 am    
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how did we ever get by with pins for over 50 years?
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Jason Lynch


From:
Essex, United Kingdom
Post  Posted 25 Jan 2015 9:25 am    
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Do i detect a touch of cynicism there, Mr Ivey Laughing
Good point though.
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Donny Hinson

 

From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
Post  Posted 26 Jan 2015 3:28 am    
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chris ivey wrote:
how did we ever get by with pins for over 50 years?


Answer: Some of us felt that guitars that used pins were a poor design, so we just avoided guitars that had them. Laughing
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Jason Lynch


From:
Essex, United Kingdom
Post  Posted 26 Jan 2015 3:31 am    
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I asked
Jeff Surat, from Sho Pro this question through Facebook, and his answer was that Pins are just more convenient. I suppose from a manufacturing point of view that are, but I'm with Donny on this one.
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Howard Steinberg


From:
St. Petersburg, Florida , USA
Post  Posted 26 Jan 2015 5:00 am    
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Fred Justice has or had a piano tuning tool which is a rubber wedge with a handle that holds a string on the pin. This makes string changing faster and painless. Kinda like the third arm/hand that I used to wish for when changing a string.
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John De Maille


From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
Post  Posted 26 Jan 2015 7:42 am    
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I played my RusLer, that, has pins for 28 yrs and never broke a pin, strings yes, but, no pins. I never even thought about a pin breaking, so, I guess I didn't jinx myself or my steel.
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Jason Lynch


From:
Essex, United Kingdom
Post  Posted 26 Jan 2015 7:47 am    
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Fair point, John. Thanks.
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 26 Jan 2015 10:05 am    
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Speaking as one who has built a guitar with pins (yes, it is simpler) and is unlikely ever to own one with slots, I have to side with simplicity. As long as the ball end is snugly down on the base of the pin there is no reason for it to fail other than a defect in the wire from which it's cut (I used 1/16" stainless steel). If you're worried about that you should also worry about pedals snapping off &c. &c. I'm sure I read a post one time where a ball end was jammed in a slot....
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Jason Lynch


From:
Essex, United Kingdom
Post  Posted 26 Jan 2015 10:53 am    
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Thanks Ian. I appreciate that perhaps they're moe reliable than I give them credit for.
Cheers
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Tony Glassman


From:
The Great Northwest
Post  Posted 26 Jan 2015 5:24 pm    
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I've broken only one pin in 40 years of steel guitar playing. It was my fault, I didn't check to make sure the string was snuggled up against the changer head before I tightened it up.

Was able to drill a second hole right above the sheared-off pin and tap in a roll-pin. I played it for that way for about three or four years until I replaced it while rebuilding the guitar
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Darvin Willhoite


From:
Roxton, Tx. USA
Post  Posted 26 Jan 2015 7:33 pm    
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I never broke a pin on a pin style, those roll pins are pretty strong, they're made of spring steel, and commonly called spring pins.

The new MSA's have a slot and a pocket that catches the end of the string if you should ever break one, then you just lift it out. I only remember breaking one string on all three of mine. Great design.
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Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro.
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John Billings


From:
Ohio, USA
Post  Posted 27 Jan 2015 10:14 am    
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Never broken a pin, but have had to use a tiny file to widen slots because the 10th string wrap wouldn't let the string seat correctly. PITA!
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