| Author |
Topic: Strings ball ends. Hooks Vs Pins. |
Jason Lynch
From:
Essex, United Kingdom
|
Posted 24 Jan 2015 3:23 pm |
|
Hi all
I've been doing a little window shopping lately, (Dreaming!) and looking at new guitars.
I've noticed the amount of manufacturers that use pins to secure the string to the finger, rather than a hook for the ball end to fit into.
Personally, I can't imagine anything worse than messing around with a load of pins every time you change strings-sounds like a recipe for disaster to me! I've only had two guitars, and they both had hooks in the finger.
Is there an advantage to these pins That I can't see?
Sho-pro, Rittenberry, Rains, Justice, Fessenden all use pins. |
|
|
 |
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 24 Jan 2015 3:32 pm
|
|
My Franklin uses pins. The PP Emmons I had, used pins.
There are some that believe pins have better tone and sustain. |
|
|
|
Jason Lynch
From:
Essex, United Kingdom
|
Posted 24 Jan 2015 3:34 pm
|
|
| Ok, thanks jack. |
|
|
|
Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
|
|
|
|
Jason Lynch
From:
Essex, United Kingdom
|
Posted 24 Jan 2015 3:51 pm
|
|
Thanks Dale. Seems strange to imagine a string under tensions just "popping out" from it's hook.
And thanks. I thought Mullen had hooks! |
|
|
|
Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
|
|
|
|
Jason Lynch
From:
Essex, United Kingdom
|
Posted 25 Jan 2015 12:17 am
|
|
| Yeah, that's what I meant by pins, Dale. Thanks. |
|
|
|
Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
|
Posted 25 Jan 2015 12:36 am
|
|
I think it all has to do with the overall instruction of your pedalsteel. I decided to go with my WBS for a brass tunnel- or bridge-changer. I made (to me) the right decicion for sound and sustain inhere. Easy to change strings. Also, never a pin that falls down in the changer and almost no stringbreakage. JJ
 [/img] |
|
|
|
Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
|
Posted 25 Jan 2015 5:18 am
|
|
Johan.. Wow, what a great design for a pedal steel bridge! The few WBS steels I have seen pics of, have really impressed me.. They look as well built and innovative as any steel guitar built here in the states...
I have been on their website, and the odd translation is a hoot.. You can see the somewhat broken English in print.
The WBS guitars like super precision machines... The Germans have always built really good stuff.
bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 25 Jan 2015 6:32 am
|
|
Guitars with pins could be a problem, especially if you only have one guitar. A pin snapping off or coming loose, while it's a very rare occurence, could put you out of business until it's repaired.
If I gigged regularly with a guitar like that, it'd have to have two rows of pins. In case one broke, you'd have the "backup" already there. |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 25 Jan 2015 6:49 am
|
|
| Williams has a slanted design on their changer fingers, with a slot to fit the string end into. With this design, when a string breaks the end doesn't wind up in the changer. |
|
|
|
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
|
Posted 25 Jan 2015 7:01 am
|
|
Donny, that's a great idea and easy to do but I can't imagine any manufacturer taking it up and so drawing attention to the possibility of failure. It would have to be a retro-fit, like the emergency second brake pedal on your car.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
|
|
|
chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
|
Posted 25 Jan 2015 9:23 am
|
|
| how did we ever get by with pins for over 50 years? |
|
|
|
Jason Lynch
From:
Essex, United Kingdom
|
Posted 25 Jan 2015 9:25 am
|
|
Do i detect a touch of cynicism there, Mr Ivey 
Good point though. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 26 Jan 2015 3:28 am
|
|
| chris ivey wrote: |
| how did we ever get by with pins for over 50 years? |
Answer: Some of us felt that guitars that used pins were a poor design, so we just avoided guitars that had them. |
|
|
|
Jason Lynch
From:
Essex, United Kingdom
|
Posted 26 Jan 2015 3:31 am
|
|
I asked
Jeff Surat, from Sho Pro this question through Facebook, and his answer was that Pins are just more convenient. I suppose from a manufacturing point of view that are, but I'm with Donny on this one. |
|
|
|
Howard Steinberg
From:
St. Petersburg, Florida , USA
|
Posted 26 Jan 2015 5:00 am
|
|
Fred Justice has or had a piano tuning tool which is a rubber wedge with a handle that holds a string on the pin. This makes string changing faster and painless. Kinda like the third arm/hand that I used to wish for when changing a string.
_________________
Justice Pro Lite (4-5), Justice D-10 (8-5)x2 , Quilter Steelaire, Hilton Pedal, BJ's bar. |
|
|
|
John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
|
Posted 26 Jan 2015 7:42 am
|
|
| I played my RusLer, that, has pins for 28 yrs and never broke a pin, strings yes, but, no pins. I never even thought about a pin breaking, so, I guess I didn't jinx myself or my steel. |
|
|
|
Jason Lynch
From:
Essex, United Kingdom
|
Posted 26 Jan 2015 7:47 am
|
|
| Fair point, John. Thanks. |
|
|
|
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
|
Posted 26 Jan 2015 10:05 am
|
|
Speaking as one who has built a guitar with pins (yes, it is simpler) and is unlikely ever to own one with slots, I have to side with simplicity. As long as the ball end is snugly down on the base of the pin there is no reason for it to fail other than a defect in the wire from which it's cut (I used 1/16" stainless steel). If you're worried about that you should also worry about pedals snapping off &c. &c. I'm sure I read a post one time where a ball end was jammed in a slot....
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
|
|
|
Jason Lynch
From:
Essex, United Kingdom
|
Posted 26 Jan 2015 10:53 am
|
|
Thanks Ian. I appreciate that perhaps they're moe reliable than I give them credit for.
Cheers |
|
|
|
Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
|
Posted 26 Jan 2015 5:24 pm
|
|
I've broken only one pin in 40 years of steel guitar playing. It was my fault, I didn't check to make sure the string was snuggled up against the changer head before I tightened it up.
Was able to drill a second hole right above the sheared-off pin and tap in a roll-pin. I played it for that way for about three or four years until I replaced it while rebuilding the guitar |
|
|
|
Darvin Willhoite
From:
Roxton, Tx. USA
|
Posted 26 Jan 2015 7:33 pm
|
|
I never broke a pin on a pin style, those roll pins are pretty strong, they're made of spring steel, and commonly called spring pins.
The new MSA's have a slot and a pocket that catches the end of the string if you should ever break one, then you just lift it out. I only remember breaking one string on all three of mine. Great design.
_________________
Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro. |
|
|
|
John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 27 Jan 2015 10:14 am
|
|
| Never broken a pin, but have had to use a tiny file to widen slots because the 10th string wrap wouldn't let the string seat correctly. PITA! |
|
|
|
